Gundog Training Forum

trekmoor wrote:I have always thought a mongrel was a mixture of 3 or more breeds. A cross breed is two mixed breeds. Every dog breed in the world was probably either a cross breed or a mongrel at one time in it's history. I sometimes wonder if we are heading down a blind alley with our insistence on "pure bred" only dogs ? .............. " That which is stagnant is dying."

Wullie

Yes,yes and yes again. Perhaps the best outcross in a line might often be a different breed? Our predessesors gave us the dogs of today as a legacy yet they obviously indulged in the practice to create the breeds we now see as pedigree. Ok i am baised having been brought up with Lurchers but a mongrel is to me a dog of unknown breeding, not an intentional cross which is a crossbred or hybrid. The issue with real mongrels is no matter how good the dog might be you have very little idea what the pups might come out as. Now if you are breeding from two similar bred 1/4 bred animals quite the same cannot be said i feel

trekmoor wrote:I have always thought a mongrel was a mixture of 3 or more breeds. A cross breed is two mixed breeds. Every dog breed in the world was probably either a cross breed or a mongrel at one time in it's history. I sometimes wonder if we are heading down a blind alley with our insistence on "pure bred" only dogs ? .............. " That which is stagnant is dying."

Wullie

My point was not over mongrels my point was that it is easy to say what other people should or shouldn't do but not so easy to stick to those same values.

Your reason above is the excuse most people use who breed cross/mongrels pups use, but that is not the reason they did it. Most did it because they couldn't be bothered to say no or they wanted money.

I would consider a crossbreed to be a cross between two pedigree dogs of different breeds, and a mongrel to be a dog from mixed (more than two breeds) parentage.

I don't know how to reply to this thread now. It has gone off topic, and I feel I am being unfairly attacked for having allowed one of my dogs to be involved in a cross breeding. The only aim on both sides was to produce happy, healthy, wanted pups, which we did. I can't say the small stud fee (which I took after the pups had all been sold!) had me laughing all the way to the bank!!!!!!

And both parents were health tested, which is more than can be said for most FTCHxFTCH matings. Though I daresay most people buying those pups don't care about that.

not personnel attack at all Shocked you think so and I repeat for the 3rd time

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My point was not over mongrels my point was that it is easy to say what other people should or shouldn't do but not so easy to stick to those same values.

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said after you said that Quote :This means stud owners have to be prepared to say no as much as the bitch owner doesn't it? and Quote
I also seem to put off a lot of potential stud work for my (average and slighty above average!) dogs by explaining the pros and cons of breeding! I'd rather put people who think 'it would be nice to have a litter' off than be adding to the unwanted dog problem if they can't sell them. I guess it comes down to a personal ethical/moral code and I'm sure the top guys have more than just money in mind? I hope! end quote

So i was just pointing out to you that you to have found it hard to say NO and it isn't even your profesion, so how hard do you think it is for people who do make a living from it
But seeing as you think this is a personnel attack I will not comment on this again. Though I was just doing what you have done on this thread, given ones opnion

A friend of mine has a springer/lab cross. She is so pleased with the dog that she would like to have another. She doesn't want a springer, she doesn't want a lab, she wants a springer/lab cross. If there are people who want this particular cross but would prefer health tested parents, then why not CHOOSE to have the mating?

madrags wrote:A friend of mine has a springer/lab cross. She is so pleased with the dog that she would like to have another. She doesn't want a springer, she doesn't want a lab, she wants a springer/lab cross. If there are people who want this particular cross but would prefer health tested parents, then why not CHOOSE to have the mating?

Because there is no way you can know what you are going to get. You won't get half and half thats for sure! You will have some pups that are more springer, some that are more lab and thats just the looks! There is no way to say what combination of abilities or temprament you could get. She got a dog she liked the first time, lucky lady she might get her cross dog but it will be nothing like her previous dog! There are too many variables for my liking!

All of the springer/lab crosses that I have seen are more "of a type" than pedigree labs and springers. I have given up trying to predict what dogs will grow up to be after picking Buzz (much as I love him!).

All of the springer x GSP's I've seen have been of similar type. About the size of a show bred springer , brown and white springerish looking markings, shortish hair and built like tug boats.
They all pointed game but not at the distances GSP's often do and their retrieving was the most variable thing about them .........but that can happen in a litter of field trial bred labs too. They hunted more like a spaniel than a GSP and every owner I talked to was pleased with his rough shooting dog.

If all I wanted was a rough shooting dog and if I had no desire to breed I would happily own one. I'm just not a purist !

Wullie