Lynn wrote:Now you are going "off thread" I was just going to say what an enthrawling thread this has become Yes I do use an e collar and I use the audible sound as the "touch". I use it , initially as an aversion to stop young dogs being kicked by young horses. (I had a 10 week old pup killed by a yearling colt 40 years ago and I never want it to happen again) Any way - thank you for some excellent discussion and I have ordered a copy of Martin's book.
Just going back on topic again Lynn, Do You use the e collar,on the young horse?, or the 10 week old pup? after your experience?
I have found that 'horse training', is very similiar', to dog training!
and for the third and last time i will attemp to get this back on track !!!!!
so by using the collar for positive training how long does the dog have to wear the dummy collar for before using the real thing ? I know as an adversive u would use the dummy collar for perhaps a week prior to the real one!!!
shanagan wrote:so by using the collar for positive training how long does the dog have to wear the dummy collar for before using the real thing ? I know as an adversive u would use the dummy collar for perhaps a week prior to the real one!!!
Never use a dummy collar. I may have a dog wear a collar for a few days but often I just put it on and go. Remember I am training with other means than just the collar. Put it on in the kennel and take it off in the kennel or crate.
Lynn wrote:Now you are going "off thread" I was just going to say what an enthrawling thread this has become Yes I do use an e collar and I use the audible sound as the "touch". I use it , initially as an aversion to stop young dogs being kicked by young horses. (I had a 10 week old pup killed by a yearling colt 40 years ago and I never want it to happen again) Any way - thank you for some excellent discussion and I have ordered a copy of Martin's book.
Just going back on topic again Lynn, Do You use the e collar,on the young horse?, or the 10 week old pup? after your experience?
I have found that 'horse training', is very similiar', to dog training!
Thank you for buying the book Lynn. No e-collar in it though.
As for a pup. If the pup is big enough to wear a collar then if you use it correctly there is no problem. Had it on 8 week old pups occasionally to catch attention and then follow up with traditional approaches. Got it on 4 month old pups at the moment and no pup could be happier. Doing some really nice stuff and a lot of tail wags. If we put a slip leash on an 8 week old pup - does that mean we choke them with it?? Nah. You are the trainer once more. Not the equipment.
shanagan wrote:so by using the collar for positive training how long does the dog have to wear the dummy collar for before using the real thing ? I know as an adversive u would use the dummy collar for perhaps a week prior to the real one!!!
Never use a dummy collar. I may have a dog wear a collar for a few days but often I just put it on and go. Remember I am training with other means than just the collar. Put it on in the kennel and take it off in the kennel or crate.
He begins to think - collar on, FUN!!
Martin
so basically it doesnt matter if the dog realises the collar causes the nic ? why do u sometimes put the collar on for a few days beforehand ? surely the dummy has a use if only to save on battery drain
I never use a dummy collar. That imples that the dog will only be good when there is a collar on. By using yourself and other communication,motivation and reward methods in addition to the collar the dog begins to work with and for you. That is what training is all about. The dog that only works for the collar is no good to me. Remember we want the dog to be good when he has no collar at all. Also, how can you communicate with a dummy collar. I want the collar on so i can use it as I need to. You never know when you will need it to help you through a training session, so the dog wear the real one. I have never used a dummy collar. Remember only you press the button. If you dont want the dog to be communicated with through the collar simply do not press the button. From this comment it appears we are presuming once again that we only use the e-collar for corrections and therefore by wearing a collar the dog will be good because he fears a correction from it.
I have found that by putting the collar on before they come out of the kennel or box and taking it off after they get back into the kennel or box and not allowing a dog any time when you cannot talk to him through the collar in the main training foundation stages, he does not become collar wise. What he may become however is transmitter wise and therefore I keep it in my game bag or pocket many times when he is close.
Sorry did not fully answer your comments. I want the dog to know the nick or tap comes from me with the command. At levels that catch his attention and reinforce the command this is no problem and an advantage. I also want the dog on some occasions to know it comes from me if I have to use it as a mild aversive or correction. For example, he begins to chase a rabbit, I blow the stop whistle or tell him sit or give a warning threat OY! I want him to know it is me stopping him and that it is not a sensation given by rabbit. I will want him to track and collect moving wounded runners in the future and to flush un-shot game, so I want him to know it is my control. If however he chases a deer, that I might correct with an unpleasant aversive and want him to relate it to the deer because that he should not do at any time. In that instance I would not give a command.
I would never use it on a 10 week old puppy From about 5mnths old my dogs have their fun exercise in the same fields as my horses. If they start to go too near the horses and a voice command is not enough to curb the curiosity then I put the e collar on and wait until they are in the area around the horse where they will associate the "sting" with the horse. I have rarely ever had to do this more than once, and all my dogs have a great respect for my horses and no fear of the collar.
I was just going to say what an enthrawling thread this has become
Yes I do use an e collar and I use the audible sound as the "touch". I use it , initially as an aversion to stop young dogs being kicked by young horses. (I had a 10 week old pup killed by a yearling colt 40 years ago and I never want it to happen again) Any way - thank you for some excellent discussion and I have ordered a copy of Martin's book.
