Gundog Training Forum

Have to say I've not had much success with putting dummies out unseen but I will say having a dummy or ball in my pocket encourages mine to stay very close to me even if none of them get a retrieve that day!

I've given up trying to get balls out unseen past the baby puppy stage, they just end up sticky. I will put out balls/dummies with a ball chucker thing before I get a dog out of the car and well out of their sight so there's no foot scent to assist them but generally I just try to use gamey ground if possible now!

Never used a ball lane or planted balls/dummies. It’s not the close hunting that will stop your dog running off when it feels like it. When a dog has been allowed to reach that stage your only recourse is to develop control through training an effective stop and recall. As well as making yourself more fun to be around. The first step is in understanding the critical distance in which you have control and working within that as a limit and then slowly expand on that as reliability improves.

Naj

Judy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:18 am Have to say I've not had much success with putting dummies out unseen but I will say having a dummy or ball in my pocket encourages mine to stay very close to me even if none of them get a retrieve that day!

How do you stop them pestering you? Mine is always nudging my pocket and it drives me potty. I do ignore him and keep walking, but it isn't working! I have said "no" and told him to walk on on other occasions. Having a dog motivated by a ball is a two edged sword!

Jelinga wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:36 pm

Judy wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:18 am Have to say I've not had much success with putting dummies out unseen but I will say having a dummy or ball in my pocket encourages mine to stay very close to me even if none of them get a retrieve that day!

How do you stop them pestering you? Mine is always nudging my pocket and it drives me potty. I do ignore him and keep walking, but it isn't working! I have said "no" and told him to walk on on other occasions. Having a dog motivated by a ball is a two edged sword!

Yep and I continually have muddy paw prints all over me to prove it

Naj wrote: ↑Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:35 pm Never used a ball lane or planted balls/dummies. It’s not the close hunting that will stop your dog running off when it feels like it. When a dog has been allowed to reach that stage your only recourse is to develop control through training an effective stop and recall. As well as making yourself more fun to be around. The first step is in understanding the critical distance in which you have control and working within that as a limit and then slowly expand on that as reliability improves.

Naj

Trainer has said teaching him to stay close by giving boundaries will stop him going to far in general specially if I use the 'ah ah' command when hes gone to far. Its worked so far and he comes back to a good distance. I think the problem is sometimes the lab is more fun than me so he goes with her, which I would do if I was a dog so I have been leaving the lab behind and just taking my cocker. Hes obsessed with me more without her there. He got to a bit of rabbit scent today and I managed to get him hunting nicely and moving away when I did.

Someone has been messaging me who has alot of spaniels and gave some advice, to put some pheasant scent on one of the dummies to see if it made him more keen. We have a new bottle of pheasant scent, new unused, so injected some into the small 1/2 pound dummy today. Placed it where he didn't see and got him hunting for it. He was even less interested and just kept running over the scent refusing to pick the dummy at all. Put a normal canvas 1lb (not injected) dummy down and picked it straight away.. he seems to favour the 1lb dummies

2 weeks since my last post!

Harleys doing well, turned 8 months. First time I’ve taken him out the car during a drive. Decided to get him out about 2 fields back from the guns on a quiet drive Saturday, only about 10 minutes long, making him do general obedience (heel, sit, stay) for a reward while a few shots were going off, didn’t phase him.

Took some wings off the birds and have put them onto some dummies for the first time, which is the most exciting amazing thing to Harley! We have just started direction work in the last week, only slowly for him to think about something different. Now his sit (and stay) command is stronger, have been sitting both dogs together and sending them off for dummies separately. Whichever name gets said first, its their turn. ‘Bow out’ Harley out’ ‘Harley back’ making him wait his turn which he finds very difficult but waits patiently and has done him the world of good to practice often as hoping next season (if hes ready) when picking up they’ll be able to both sit off lead (lab currently sits off lead) and be steady until I send them, not sure if that will work for Harley as he is so keen but time will tell.

Done some hunting work local to our house up a hedge line getting him ‘In’ deep cover when asked, not a bother, stopping on the whistle too which he done well but finds difficult when hes on the scent so have to keep practicing that single stop whistle means sit NOW not in a couple of seconds. He’s hunting much closer to me but does tend to go further on if I don’t keep a constant eye on him.

It was his first time out with our lab and my horse Sunday, we go to a local estate where you can park for free and ride around. He had a lovely time, he was knackered after 45 mins as we done a bit of galloping where the lab stays infront and he stayed to my right side.

I’ve seen a few posts on social media on dogs stopping on the whistle on the way to a retrieve. Harley by no way will do this or has, unless I used a long line he simply doesn’t listen to me at all if hes on the way to a retrieve. Picking up I do need to obviously stop him when send out to direct him and sometimes this means changing a retrieve to a different one if its winged/pricked. Is this something to work on now, with a long line? Or wait, as don’t want to ruin his enthusiasm.

It sounds to me that he has already decided that the stop whistle is optional. There have already been occasions which you had tried it and he hasn't stopped. Personally, I wouldn't blow the stop whistle unless you know he will definately stop (ie restrict it to close training when you know he's engaged with you) until he is 100% every time. A useful next step if you have started directional training: Get someone to throw a dummy for you with a good backstop (hedge/fence etc) as a normal marked retrieve. Repeat, then get them to place a dummy in the same place that he's just had 2 successful retrieves. Send him for that. Them get your helper to put a dummy to one side. Send the dog to where he has had three sucessful retrieves. Once he hesitates (as there is no dummy there), sit him with your whistle and redirect him to the side where the dummy is. The gets him trusting that the stop whistle alway preceeds something great and that you are helping him (teamwork).

What Milner does here can be a good starting point to stopping a dog on a mark. Milner does not require a sit just a stop and look. Once the dog understands the exercise he will leave the diversions.

https://youtu.be/-3qeXEiMMKs

PS. I see Gundogs11 has posted just ahead of me. It seems we are explaining more or less the same concept.

I’ve seen a few posts on social media on dogs stopping on the whistle on the way to a retrieve. Harley by no way will do this or has, unless I used a long line he simply doesn’t listen to me at all if hes on the way to a retrieve. Picking up I do need to obviously stop him when send out to direct him and sometimes this means changing a retrieve to a different one if its winged/pricked. Is this something to work on now, with a long line? Or wait, as don’t want to ruin his enthusiasm.

Yeah right Your picking up dead birds during a drive ? You don't have a second dog? Think about it, before you let `social media experts' help you ruin your pup. Having said that the `stop' must be obeyed by the dog in all situations. I train the dog to value it above everything else but it takes time and habituation, others use coercion or force, but I don't train it using retrieves and only proof it rarely when training retrieves to avoid doing exactly what you describe in your last sentence.