Quartering

[FCSpringer]

Gone gone gone.

[Polmaise]

( not sure what a flapper is) we use pigeons.

A 'Flapping bird'

[FCSpringer]

Ahh yes. But he in the article talks about strings and live flappers. In our club, and several pros I know, we do not use live birds to start. We use dead pigeons from other dogs sessions first. And just call them back and fourth with them and tossing them ahead as the pup comes across. Flappers can spook some pups, so building confidence is important first. Then we take clip wings we call them, and use that. (Never with strings on the birds ever). "A live bird with the wings taped or bound with rubber bands. If the flapping startles the pup we repeat for a few sessions with the wings locked on a live bird. Otherwise his read is basicly the same.

[cockermadblonde]

currently stacking up cushions now.....

[Hepe]

Ahh yes. But he in the article talks about strings and live flappers. In our club, and several pros I know, we do not use live birds to start. We use dead pigeons from other dogs sessions first. And just call them back and fourth with them and tossing them ahead as the pup comes across. Flappers can spook some pups, so building confidence is important first. Then we take clip wings we call them, and use that. (Never with strings on the birds ever). "A live bird with the wings taped or bound with rubber bands. If the flapping startles the pup we repeat for a few sessions with the wings locked on a live bird. Otherwise his read is basicly the same.

First of all, i think the use of live birds like that is disgusting. Second, is it truly needed to throw whatever back and forth to get them to quarter? Or did i miss another reason for doing that? I look at my daughters 14 weeks old pup and he's quartering like mad, just on his own and so did our springer when he was of the same age. I expect no less of the pup I'm waiting for. Get well bred strong hunting spaniels with will to please and even if you dont, i see no excuse to abuse living game like that.

Addition: I did regret writing this after i did it, it wont change anything. It's been discussed before too many times, same as with E-collar use. So, no reply needed trying to explain and/or justify. We just have different views of what's right and wrong, different kind of morale if you will, sorry i lack the proper english word for it.

Helene

[trekmoor]

I think using live pigeons in that way is illegal in Britain as is releasing a bird from a cage or "trap" and then shooting it. I'm not saying it is never done but I think it is illegal.

Wullie

[FCSpringer]

Ahh yes. But he in the article talks about strings and live flappers. In our club, and several pros I know, we do not use live birds to start. We use dead pigeons from other dogs sessions first. And just call them back and fourth with them and tossing them ahead as the pup comes across. Flappers can spook some pups, so building confidence is important first. Then we take clip wings we call them, and use that. (Never with strings on the birds ever). "A live bird with the wings taped or bound with rubber bands. If the flapping startles the pup we repeat for a few sessions with the wings locked on a live bird. Otherwise his read is basicly the same.

First of all, i think the use of live birds like that is disgusting. Second, is it truly needed to throw whatever back and forth to get them to quarter? Or did i miss another reason for doing that? I look at my daughters 14 weeks old pup and he's quartering like mad, just on his own and so did our springer when he was of the same age. I expect no less of the pup I'm waiting for. Get well bred strong hunting spaniels with will to please and even if you dont, i see no excuse to abuse living game like that.

Addition: I did regret writing this after i did it, it wont change anything. It's been discussed before too many times, same as with E-collar use. So, no reply needed trying to explain and/or justify. We just have different views of what's right and wrong, different kind of morale if you will, sorry i lack the proper english word for it.

Helene

[Judy]

Woooh! Calm down! We do train on live game but its nothing like you describe, once the dog is steady and under control in relatively scent free areas its moved on to areas of more scent then into the shooting field, most people wouldn't consider using captive live birds for training. For starters, it would likely put us into a Court of Law if seen, never mind any moral issues ~ we're soft beggars over here!

I thought you were looking to import a dog or dogs from the UK? They can't be all that bad if you are. As Helene said most well bred spaniels hunt straight out of the box, its containing that hunting ability which requires effort.

Anyway, I'm sorry you are considering leaving the forum, its been very interesting reading your discussions about the differences in training and competition between our two countries, we differ in so many things. Please take time out to reconsider and then PM me if you are still intent on leaving and we will remove your account.

Judy

[Hepe]

Well it has nothing to do with good breeding. It has everything to do with control. You can think what you want. I believe you have all but ruined the breed coming over from there with poor breeding practice and also "NOT" training your dogs on "real" and wild live birds. It is clear that I will not look for a dog there now, as I want proven dogs on real birds and healthy. I also can't believe the way you people treat others at all. So I am now gone from this prejudice forum I think some should feel shame for the way you treat people on here. Moderators please close my account. Thanks.

PS I supose your one of those using a stick to make your dog heal.LOL

As i said in my previous post, i shouldn't have said something about the birds and i'm sorry i did. It's better to discuss and learn from each other rather than point finger at what we do differently. I've read some of your posts with great interest and i hope my post won't stop you from contributing and enjoying the forum. As for importing dogs from UK, don't worry, I'm not from UK so i haven't ruined any of their dogs, just my own.

Helene

[David]

I think you'll find lots of people train with live birds in the UK. Steadiness around them and flushing them back to the loft along with other things. They just aren't used to get a dog quartering.