3 way split?

[Judy]

Naj, I agree with you, a lot of it is in the training / conditioning, most of us don't have the time, patience, nor need to train to such a standard, never mind the necessary skills. And, yes, all dogs go off at great speed when first let slip, however, those that trial Spaniels never let the dog know anything else. In other words, the hunt is stopped before the dog settles to a pace it can actually keep up all day. Whether every single one of those dogs could keep going all day is another matter although most can.
Whilst we are continuing to put Trial dogs over working bitches there won't be any kind of split in the breed, if people start to exclusively use FT winning dogs over FT winning bitches then we could very quickly get into a three way split. I don't think that will happen any time soon a) because of the income generated from using FT studs on any bitch that comes to them and b) there are insufficient FT winning dogs and bitches to supply the demand without crippling the gene pool for trialling dogs.

I have never seen a dog hackle up from glee?! They often do when unsure of themselves though...

[crackerd]

So you've not seen any American FT bitches then. Look a little more closely - those are rear hackles, and it's confidence not confusion on display. Speaking of their rear, many of them lift their muscular hind legs to pee, too. Just not during training - too busy with other muscular activity, like their memory "muscles" for remembering where three or four birds fell that they have to pick in succession at 350-450 yards. The circus strongman has to be a pretty muscular chap too to get hired in the first place...

MG

[Springfield Pointers]

Hi Judy, I too have not ever seen raised hackles from glee. I have however seen raised hackles from dogs coming in when other dogs are near and they are grumpy about the proximity of other dogs/people to what they are bringing in. But certainly not from glee?

"memory muscles" - something new to me as well.

[Rascal]

It can be a sign of excitement.

Often's when a dog hits scent their hackles rise too.

But now we are way off topic.........

Rascal

[crackerd]

Lots of things in the gundog world that you've not seen (or heard ) SP, yet you expound on them with "certainty" anyhow or pontificate with "what a load of bollocks." There was no other dog within 150 yards of that retrieve as shown, and the photographer was off in the other direction. And for the third time, it was the rear hackles - which in and of itself ain't off-topic a'tall, since show dogs - the certain breed split for many gundogs, particularly Labs - cannae muster rear hackles over their layers of fat in the first place...

MG

[Rascal]

It wasn't SP that pontificated it was quest12 MG, SP was quoting him......

So lets keep this discussion civil please with no personal attacks on other posters.....

Rascal

[Springfield Pointers]

As has been said, people looking for problems where none exist. I feel like an anklebiter has arrived and shortly about to become an irritation, so I am done here, before I get into trouble again.

[Bryn]

Could the raised rear hackles be a sign of using an adrenaline surge to create the required energy to carry the large bird? Bit like a lady tennis player grunting to get that extra bit of power into a stroke

[Rascal]

Don't start me on lady tennis players grunting, even Andy Murray has started doing that now......

Rascal

[goshawk]

Different disciplines require different (trained) dogs, but they can all come from the same litter &/or share the same bloodlines, so as others have pointed out, the breeds can't be splitting genetically into specialist strains, as was the question raised in the op..

I don't agree with the last part of the sentence. Once you are breeding for specific trial dogs, they will split eventually the same way as breeds are separated in show and working strains (form follows function). That is not happening overnight, but will take sevearl decades if not more.

I have no knowledge about the actual situation in th UK re the amount of breeding taking place, but as Judy states there is no danger because of practical circumstances.

Gr, Jan