Place board Training

[Derwent Springer]

Hi all,

I've attached a link to a short video I made of Ian Openshaw at the CLA, its the first time to the CLA and I loved watching those who know.

Paul


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEU7sIW5 ... re=mh_lolz

[Gundogguy]

I believe one of the major differences that determines running style is that British trials are run on high densities of game, where tight pattern is beneficial due to the ever present risk of missing stuff (an eliminating fault), whereas American trials are run on planted game & where the birds, wrong ), are 'flagged' so the handler/judge/gas I understand it (please, correct me if I'm uns know roughly where they will be. I think the wide running style also reflects the nature of much of the hunting in the States, which is generally on lower densities of game than most spaniels are used to being worked upon in this country, & primarily on feather, so a wider hunting pattern becomes beneficial. No right or wrong to it, simply cultural differences. Great hunting dogs whatever the country.

Naj

Naj I respect your thoughts on many subjects and your experiences training dogs. But when it comes to bird planting, something that I have done for some 30yrs, THERE IS NO FLAGGING or marking of birds. There is a parallel course that the brace is run on and that is where the birds are planted. In fact taking a moving bird that has run off the course and produced for the guns and then retrieved will guaranteed a dog high marks for the run. Many a trial has been won by the dog that can take birds outside the guns and handle cleanly. As a handler I'm always hoping for a bird that is on the run VS one that is just hiding on the nest.
The comments concerning lower density of game and the fact that we only trial on feather is spot on!

As a side note concerning bird planting some twenty years ago I planted birds on Anglesey for group of Welshman that were interested in the skill. I can still hear their laughter

[crackerd]

Naj I respect your thoughts on many subjects and your experiences training dogs. But when it comes to bird planting, something that I have done for some 30yrs, THERE IS NO FLAGGING or marking of birds. There is a parallel course that the brace is run on and that is where the birds are planted. In fact taking a moving bird that has run off the course and produced for the guns and then retrieved will guaranteed a dog high marks for the run. Many a trial has been won by the dog that can take birds outside the guns and handle cleanly. As a handler I'm always hoping for a bird that is on the run VS one that is just hiding on the nest.
The comments concerning lower density of game and the fact that we only trial on feather is spot on!

As a side note concerning bird planting some twenty years ago I planted birds on Anglesey for group of Welshman that were interested in the skill. I can still hear their laughter

Gundogguy, it is a skill - wish I had a buck (dollar) for all the birds that have either been "rocked to sleep" or "planted" so hard that they couldn't flush if they wanted to, that I've encountered in flushing or pointing tests, particularly pheasants... Meanwhile, HRC - Hunting Retriever Club - started an "upland" test several years ago and had the birds "flush" from a chimney of sorts (chicken wire cage) because they feared "planters" didn't have the necessary skill to keep the bird from a) flushing wild and b) not staying put. Believe they still operate in said fashion, which is one reason I wouldn't have a flushing (or pointing) dog within 100 miles of such a test.

Anyhow, as for Naj's comments about use of flags at US spaniel trials - could he be thinking of the flags (or pennants) that mark the course boundaries? Have not been to a trial over here in a decade or so, thus I may have this wrong too.

MG

[welsh]

When I watch video of UK trials I am continually amazed at how close the dogs are expected to work.

I think one must remember that it is not in anyone's best interest to critique the differences in our cultural running styles.

Not sure how my remark ended up being taken as some kind of critique.

Anyway, the point was to illustrate how place boards are used to train quartering, not to start off a discussion of differing styles. As I said, I think it's an odd drill, but apparently it works for those who use it.

Naj, the misconception re flagging planted birds may arise because people do it during training. It lets the handler anticipate where the dog will contact the bird so that he can close up and move into position to correct the dog if it breaks. Never during tests or trials.

[Gundogguy]

Hi all,

I've attached a link to a short video I made of Ian Openshaw at the CLA, its the first time to the CLA and I loved watching those who know.

Paul


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEU7sIW5 ... re=mh_lolz

Very Nice Paul thanks for sharing reminds me of a young springer that I started on the place boards last October

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0CRzD9-mC4

This pup was 14-16 weeks old

[Gundogguy]

When I watch video of UK trials I am continually amazed at how close the dogs are expected to work.

I think one must remember that it is not in anyone's best interest to critique the differences in our cultural running styles.

Not sure how my remark ended up being taken as some kind of critique.

No No I was not referring to your remark as such, I just know how things can go when the two cultures come together. I'm sorry if you took offense, none meant!
and you are correct as to flags marking out the Center line other than that you may go anywhere to produce a bird. BBUt when the judge will say and demand "show me the bird" You better produce if you are off the course on a runner.


Crakerd Bird planting is a learned behavior. aand the good bird planters are sought out by trial chairpersons and paid well for there services. and yes the retriever world would have no idea how to plant pheasants I have seen the disasters known as HRC upland tests..
I got go and plant some birds for a few little dogs
Cheerio!

[Naj]

Gundogguy - I'll happily defer to your greater experience on this subject & apologies for my misunderstanding.

Naj

ps. Was the Welsh guy the late Talbot Radcliffe of Saightons springers?

[Gundogguy]

Gundogguy - I'll happily defer to your greater experience on this subject & apologies for my misunderstanding.

Naj

ps. Was the Welsh guy the late Talbot Radcliffe of Saightons springers?

No apology needed, was not offended in any way!

Well I was at Presaddfed and Saighton Kennels. But was in the company of Talbots trainer, Andrew Greene and some of his clients. Andrew was conducting a training group and invited me to demonstrate some American training techniques. They all had a good time and a good laugh and went back to their English ways.
For those of you that might have known Andrew Greene, he lives only about 15 miles from my location here in the states.

[crackerd]

Well I was at Presaddfed and Saighton Kennels. But was in the company of Talbots trainer, Andrew Greene and some of his clients. Andrew was conducting a training group and invited me to demonstrate some American training techniques. They all had a good time and a good laugh and went back to their English ways.
For those of you that might have known Andrew Greene, he lives only about 15 miles from my location here in the states.

Somehow, Gunddogguy, I've a hunch Mr. Ed Whitaker was slap-dab in the middle of all this. But I may have bowled a wide in so thinking, too.

MG

[Gundogguy]

Well I was at Presaddfed and Saighton Kennels. But was in the company of Talbots trainer, Andrew Greene and some of his clients. Andrew was conducting a training group and invited me to demonstrate some American training techniques. They all had a good time and a good laugh and went back to their English ways.
For those of you that might have known Andrew Greene, he lives only about 15 miles from my location here in the states.

Somehow, Gunddogguy, I've a hunch Mr. Ed Whitaker was slap-dab in the middle of all this. But I may have bowled a wide in so thinking, too.

MG

Not that trip. Mr. Ed was prince of man. He always made the new comers to sport feel right at home and was always most helpful.
I was working for a client who was on a buying trip for dogs in the UK.
Photo of Ed and his FC Drift