Gundog Training Forum

Just looking for thoughts on the latest problem with the flatcoat! He's now four and has not been castrated. About a month ago he spent nearly a week in close proximity to a bitch in season. When he came home he was all over the place, sniffing everywhere, off his food and generally very distracted. Things are considerably better now but he is much more interested in humping, usually castrated dogs, than he's ever been before although it has to be said that he's always been very interested in other dogs and, when play gets too exciting, he has tended to start humping. Other dogs have always been an almost impossible to manage distraction and I don't know whether things would be better if I were to get him castrated at this stage. I am wondering if it would be sensible to try the implant which mimics the effect of castration to see if it makes a significant difference as I would be reluctant to let him undergo an anaesthetic if the end result was little or no behaviour change.
I am well aware that this is probably, above all, a training deficiency but I would be grateful for any advice or ideas from those with much more experience in these matters!

Well i guess you can do the snip and it will possibly help but i would begin with stopping him from playing with other dogs? Where does he have access to all these hump objects i wonder? Your dog is no oddity, mind you, it's quite normal/common for males to forget their manners when getting excited. So help him not to forget his manners by not letting him end up there? It means you as an owner have to provide alternative amusement which should be, surprise surprise - training!

Helene

If he is 4, getting him neutered will not change any behaviors. Getting a dog neutered by the age of 6 months will *usually* help that he does not display secondary sexual characteristics like humping and marking but after the age of 2 yrs the dog is who he is going to be. I had to neuter a dog once when he was 3 and it didn't change him in the least (which I was happy about, but for your problem it would not be so happy lol).

Interesting! I have experience of only one castrated dog. He was not castrated until he was five years old (when I got fed up with showing him ) It vastly changed him for the better, especially when getting a whiff of a bitch in season. Whereas previously he would be as you describe ... off his food for a fortnight, sitting outside howling etc etc (and the nearest bitch lived over a mile away!!) he became much less stressed and although he continued very occasionally to be a humper for a while he was much better and a far happier dog too!

Fiona

Well, if unsure and not quite ready to do the big snip, try chemical castration first. Very common here in Sweden to see if it's mostly hormonal or just bad habit. I suspect most is a combinatin. I've had quite a few show labs at my courses being over sexed (young dogs) and for those a chemical castration made life lots easier for both dog and owner so they went trough with castrating. For some others little change was noted so no castration, mostly a bit older rude nonchalant dogs.

Helene

Totally agree with Helene, but do have to add that I would approach the implant with caution. although an extremely rare case indeed I know someone who's dog was horrendously changed by it, with a devastating outcome which resulted in the dog being pts.

I think I remember you posting something about that dog before Alice.

I would be interested in what reason there was for using the implant in that particular dog in the first place and what the dogs temperament and general behaviour were like beforehand (ie. was the use of the implant used appropriately?)

The implant completely mimics castration so if a dog had a horrendous personality change after it it would have done the same after castration. Aggressive dogs can become more aggressive in the first week after implantation as testosterone spikes before plummetting but this would not require PTS and isn't a problem if owners are properly warned. I would only expect negative change after castration or suprelorin IF the dog was a fear aggressive dog. Vets and trainers often misdiagnose these as dominant, aggressive etc etc and think no nuts will help but these dogs actually need testosterone to help them! The implant can be surgically removed if it doesn't suit.
Castration at any age will reduce hormonally driven behaviours but won't reduce them once they have become learnt behaviours which no longer need to be hormone driven....so, a dog castrated at 4 who has never mated a bitch is unlikely to be very interested in future but a 4year old heavily used stud dog may still get excited even though he 'shouldn't'. There is always an exception to every rule....I knew a dog castrated at 9months old who went on to mate and tie with a bitch...tell him he couldn't!

Thank you for all the replies. I must admit that I am feeling pretty despondent at the moment as it seems that all of the training I have been doing over the past four years has gone out of the window. This morning I took him out for his first walk and kept him on the lead walking to heel until we got to a place where there were no other dogs. I let him off for a quick sniff and was about to recall him when, from some distance away, we heard a dog bark. The flatcoat took off like a rocket and, although he stopped to the whistle some distance away from me, he ignored the recall and set off again to look for the dog. I finally caught up with him on the beach as he was enthusiastically humping some poor people's family pet (castrated dog). The owner of the other dog, on my direction, grabbed his collar so I was able to put him back on the lead. My dog shows absolutely no aggression and has never so much as growled when being hauled away from the object of his desire but, as things stand, I don't feel I can let him off the lead anywhere where we may encounter other dogs, even at a distance. This will seriously limit the sort of training I can do with him and is very dispiriting at this stage when some things were progressing quite well. I shall be making an appointment with the vet next week, I think, as I really can't think of anything else to do at the moment.

When he sat to the whistle what would he have done if you'd tossed a retrieve out?

Rascal