Gundog Training Forum

After being asked by a few members on here I figured I would post a message between myself and Scott. This is a brief overview and I will add more after, I am just pressed for time (gotta get the dogs out for a run before it gets too hot).

A good piece of reading is found here http://glencoekennels.net/Training/Intr ... ining.html

First off here's my place board sizes. I have one that is 30"x 30" and is 18" off the ground. My second one is 24" x 24" and just on 2x4s on their sides so it is just a little off the ground.


What place/box training does is basically just designate a definite zone that the dog quickly realizes is where it needs to be. At first I said "Place" and set him on it and rewarded him. Then I moved to saying "Place" and he would jump up on it himself. Again, always a good reward for being on the board so he makes it a very positive association (he now runs to it as soon as he sees it). I started with a board that was 18" off the ground so for Jake to get off of it (when I told him to sit) he had to jump off (at which point I was running back to him to place him back on there and reaffirming the sit command). He very quickly learned that jumping off the board was not allowed. The first few sessions I did were just short sit/stays, 1-3 minutes in length and I never let him get off the board by himself the first week. When he had completed his task I would tell him "Ok'" and lift him off of the board so he knew I was the way to get off. I worked on getting him to sit longer and longer as I walked around. Then I introduced balls and dummies to the mix. Of course, he would jump off but I intercepted him and put him back and then picked them up myself. Again, he quickly figured it out and would sit still while I threw dummies and balls everywhere. Then I started sending him for the odd retrieve and would stand beside or behind the board tapping it saying "Place" so he would jump up on it with the dummy or ball and I would praise him like crazy before taking the item. While retrieving and getting that place command on the way back his mind shifts to "Ok, I gotta get to my spot." and he forgets about anything he may want to do like circling or running around. After using the high board for 2-3 weeks I introduced him to the lower one. He quickly figured out that anything I say is "place" is where he goes, then I started the whole process over again. With the lower one it was just a step off so it took a couple reminders that he needed to keep his butt on the board. Now I can make him go from board to board, with or without a retrieve and it has made him solid on staying, even without a board as he knows where he initially sits is where he needs to stay. Therefore I don't deal with "creeping" or anything like that. If you have any more questions let me know, I'm sure I've missed a ton.


That was a bit of our conversation... As I said, I will elaborate more later on when I am near the computer. I know a lot of people aren't crazy about place training but with my headstrong little cocker it has worked wonders. Of course you phase out the boards eventually but you are teaching the dog when you designate a spot for it, it stays there until commanded otherwise. There are tons of drills you can do with the boards and while it may seem like extra steps (you folks across the pond like a long training timeline though right? ) it cuts out a lot of the problems I see constantly posted on this forum (my dog circles... my dog creeps... etc etc). Anyways, I gotta quit typing and get outside. More later!

Thanks for posting that Cass an interesting read....

Rascal

Here's a quick video of Jake changing places - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Q4czV30GE

Openshaw uses this method , he has been showing how he does it at game fairs recently I believe

This is fascinating. Ian Openshaw gave a demonstration of this training method at a training workshop at Alice Wise's place a couple of months ago. Ian and Wendy apparently start all puppies on this system. He went to USA to see Gary Breitbarth of G&D Kennels to learn about this training.

http://www.gundogsonline.com/Article/pl ... -Page1.htm

http://www.ganddkennels.com/video-tips

I was on a training day with Ian Openshaw in September 2012 and he showed how he used it.

Yes it is a very popular method here amongst the trial guys. And it definitely works.

Thanks Nick

I'm going to give it a crack with one of mine to see how it works and to polish her delivery. If it works then I'll be tempted to use it with my new pup

Scott

Cass

At what age do you start using them. I've been told its as young as 10 weeks. Do you just use the usual methods to get the dogs hunting and retrieving to start with? I understand how these work for steadiness and for directional training. Its the missing bits I need filling in. Do you use them for blinds and more challenging retrieves or have you progressed passed them by that stage?

Questions, Questions....

David wrote:I understand how these work for steadiness and for directional training. Its the missing bits I need filling in. Do you use them for blinds and more challenging retrieves or have you progressed passed them by that stage?
Questions, Questions....

David, "all the trials guys" in N.A. may use them, as Cass noted, but that's spaniel trial guys. And spaniel trials in the US (or Canada) don't have blind retrieves (land or water) or multiple retrieves (challenging) or even a single water retrieve (say for testing steadiness in a duck hide). Place boards are an old (American) retriever training tool now considered passe - the "directional training" accomplished nowadays with nothing more than a dummy or three, the dog's desire to retrieve and your own dexterity with your limbs.

Not trying to p*ss on Cass (or Opie's) parade, but so much more can be accomplished with so much less in training a puppy, retriever or retrieving spaniel, than by using place boards. But I guess you could concede it helps sustain the US and Canadian lumber industries...

MG