Gundog Training Forum

I was picking up on Saturday and had two moments that I was less than pleased with.

One was ambitious to start with - sending my dog for a seen retrieve half a hefty field away. He went straight to where the grass strip where the bird went (wow) but didn't go into the bramble behind. I blew the stop whistle to no response. I was about 100 yards away and knew I was pushing my luck, so didn't force the issue and recalled Jack to me. Unfortunately we didn't get the bird after the drive finished... oh well, you win some, you lose some.

The next drive, we had an incident that did worry me.

I was inside a wood with one gun 100 yards into the wood and another out on the open field about the same distance. The gun in the field shot two birds - one stone dead in the grass verge round the field, the next was a runner into the edge of the wood, both birds about 30 yards from me.

The gun had a dog, so I was content to leave the dead bird for him.

So I sent Jack for the second bird, the runner. He went straight for the 2nd bird until he took off after the first stone dead bird and then brought it back to me. I blew the stop whistle the moment he changed course, however he ignored it and ran with head of steam to bird. The first, stone dead bird was up wind of the 2nd bird runner.

Jack had marked both of these birds.

We then looked for the runner and couldn't find it. In the end, we had three dogs looking for the runner and still couldn't get it.

It was upsetting particularly because the runner was visible when I sent Jack for it but had gone by time he had come back.

So - what to do next time and how to train for this situation?

My thoughts now are that I should have been more aware of the wind and walked Jack closer to the runner before sending him. That way, I would have had a sporting chance of stopping him had he gone for the first stone dead bird.

However, how do I train this situation? I have created this situation a number of time with dummies on my normal training ground. I have even spent a number of evening at the wood training Jack (although not as many as I would like) to try and bring training a bit closer to day excitement. However, in the heat of the drives, I get less response from Jack when I send him out.

So, what I am really asking is how to get Jack to respond to stop whistle on shooting day? How do I train for it before shoot day to give as realistic as possible conditions?

Toby

hi Toby

nice to see you're still out with Jack.

When you're out training have you tried throwing a dummy, sending him for it, stopping him then sending him for another? Either a seen or thrown straight after he stops on the whistle?

tbh, from the way you've described situation 2, it seems that Jack took the easy option or perhaps he thought the runner wasnt injured & had completely legged it and that he didnt want to take on a strong bird & went for the dead one?

I would also suggest if you feel it may be useful, to go on a game training day, as these type of situations occur & gives you a chance to get out to your dog and reinforce your command. Both for situation 1 (where he was so far out, it was a case of 'i cant hear you ...even though i can') and situation 2.

sorry for the essay. just my tuppence worth.

Hiya! thanks for the reply.

When you're out training have you tried throwing a dummy, sending him for it, stopping him then sending him for another? Either a seen or thrown straight after he stops on the whistle?

Yes - done this many times with no issues.

tbh, from the way you've described situation 2, it seems that Jack took the easy option or perhaps he thought the runner wasnt injured & had completely legged it and that he didnt want to take on a strong bird & went for the dead one?

that makes sense. When he changed directions, he was determined.

I would also suggest if you feel it may be useful, to go on a game training day, as these type of situations occur & gives you a chance to get out to your dog and reinforce your command. Both for situation 1 (where he was so far out, it was a case of 'i cant hear you ...even though i can') and situation 2.

ok, that sounds like a good plan.

Toby

On the first retrieve I'd have walked out closer to him without saying anything then whistle sat him and pushed him in the bramble that way you should have got the bird and he might learn that doing as he's told gets him results...Will he readily go in bramble?

Your stop whistle isn't good enough with the distractions of a shoot day so work on it but closer up.....

I don't know what went wrong on the runner apart from as I've said your stop whistle (and directions at a distance) aren't good enough....But if you are not careful he's learning that he can ignore you and still get the reward...I'd have marked where the runner went in the wood and maybe walked out to it with him and worked him on the scent of it straight away, some youngsters need encouragement to pick a strong runner.

Stop sending him on stuff at distances where he can fail and remember that what is clear to you is not for a dog because their view being at your knee height is different to yours. And work him closer to you and if that means a walk by you then so be it. Your main purpose is to retrieve runners after all...

A live game training day would be a very good idea...but you still have to work constantly on it on a shoot day too, you never stop training with a youngster. Work on stuff like handling in lulls in proceedings too like the grog stop, lunch or after the last drive... Offer your services for free and say you are training your dog, some shoots are happy to accommodate that but don't be at your dog during drives...

Rascal

Thanks Rascal, that makes sense.

Toby