Gundog Training Forum

Hi,
I wonder if anyone can suggest a remedy for what I'm now pretty sure is a case of the doggy blues or depression.

I have a 5 year old ESS, Poppy, and a one year old Labrador, Daisy. Before the labrador's arrival, Poppy the spaniel was a typical spaniel: fizzy, hard hunting, loved retrieving anything and everything, bright eyed, keen to work etc etc. She is/was the star of the demos we do and a joy to work with. And then ........

We added Daisy, a fox red lab to the family in Feb 2013. My time, attention and training effort has therefore been divided since then between the 2 dogs as I tried to get Daisy up to speed for the show season. She appeared in about 7 shows last year and did really well. Poppy, the ESS, however, gradually went downhill. By that I mean she began to lose that fizz, enthusiasm, spark etc until we reached the stage when she just wasn't interested in hunting or retrieving canvas in shows or in training - hardly ideal when you're trying to demonstrate the qualities of a spaniel!

I put this down initially to complacency and boredom having done so many shows last year and decided to wait until the shooting season to see if things improved. They did - and they didn't! Yes, when we go out and work together in the line or picking up, she is full of beans and scorches around as she always did. In fact, she is even more excited now about going shooting than she ever was - so much so that her steadiness has suffered and is continuing to deteriorate. But when we are at home or when we go training, she is completely lack lustre, sleeps most of the day and has the general demeanour of a 12 year old dog rather than a 5 year old who should be in her physical prime.

I took her to the vet to see if there was a physiological explanation for her lethargy. They carried out 3 blood tests for all sorts of conditions and took urine and stool samples - the works! She has been on pills for what they thought was a liver disorder, but that has now gone. They treated her for possible lungworm, kidney disorder, changed her diet etc etc. Now, all the tests have come back clear and the vets are at a loss to provide a medical explanation for her condition, which they witnessed first hand: she walked in to the vet's examination room and promptly lay down and went to sleep!

The only diagnosis left was one of depression as a result of the arrival of Daisy. We do everything we can in the house to reinforce Poppy's position as top dog. In addition, I train with her alone, I spend time with her alone, but clearly not the same amount of time as I used to, as I also spend time alone with Daisy. But nothing we as a family do seems to help her apparent misery - apart from when she and I go shooting when she's back to her sparky self.

Poppy and Daisy get on fine. Well, Poppy tolerates the young pup and her antics of charging round the place, barging into people and dogs and trying to take stuff off Poppy as young dogs do. And Poppy is not shy in putting the young pup in her place when she pushes things too far. But she clearly feels pi$$ed off that she now has to share me with this young upstart.

Is there anything anyone can suggest that we can do or is it something that both we and she just have to live with now that there has been an addition to our pack?

Thanks.

SS

What a sad story and one that I cannot even begin to help with.

In the abscence of a medical explanation I'm wondering if a consultation with a behaviourist might help...?

I do find it a bit odd that she went to sleep at the vets. You highlighted that point so I can only assume that would be out of character for her, and I also assume that Daisy was not there so would question why she didn't show any kind of interest, good or bad, in that environment. Most healthy animals show something, even if it's just sniffing about the floor, when they're in the vets waiting room. Has her thyroid function been checked?

Hi Rookie,

Yes to both: her behaviour in the vet's surgery was not normal; and yes, she was tested for an under-active thyroid and given the all clear.

I forgot to add that her appetite is normal: she still hoovers down her food!

Thanks for your concern.

SS

Stevie Swops wrote:We do everything we can in the house to reinforce Poppy's position as top dog.

Why are you doing this? Try not doing it and see if it changes anything.

Not based on anything scientific but that sentence jumped out of your post at me ... and the thought passed though my head "maybe Poppy isn't truly 'top dog' "

Maybe you are trying too hard and she feels the pressure (falling asleep at the vets could be "I have to be good otherwise they try to hard"?). Obviously do not let the youngster become a bully but otherwise take a seat and let them work out the pecking order?

Cathy

Nonehpets wrote:

Stevie Swops wrote:We do everything we can in the house to reinforce Poppy's position as top dog.

Why are you doing this? Try not doing it and see if it changes anything.

Not based on anything scientific but that sentence jumped out of your post at me ... and the thought passed though my head "maybe Poppy isn't truly 'top dog' "

Cathy

I agree. She may not be happy because she's not being allowed to be in her proper position in the pack.

I cannot read in your mail if this lethargy is permanent or intermitted.
If the last is the case, did you think of a 'post season depression'. One of my bitches is out of order for more than 4 months after her season. She had that for a couple of years now.
Gr, Jan

Hi Jan,

The lethargy is pretty permanent. But she was spayed 4 years ago, so I can't put it down to post-season depression, I'm afraid. But thanks for contributing anyway.

For Cathy and Cass: thanks for this. Certainly food for thought. The reason we had shown preferential treatment to Poppy was in order to provide a degree of reassurance to her. But I take your points.

Dogs learn while still with their siblings where they fall in pecking order and generally stay that way for life. Forcing a dog to be something it's not could be why she is unhappy

In my experience with bringing multiple dogs together in a household, often the kindest thing we can do is just ignore all of them, apart from walking/training and when they approach us for attention. Maybe she feels under too much pressure?

Just a thought. You say she still gives a good account of herself in the field. I would suggest that previously (pre pup) she was unsettled and "on edge". Hence the action ay home. Now she has settled into a state of contentment and is happy to relax 100%. Ignore the dogs to a large extent and the balance at home will sort itself out. Don't anthropomorphise, make sure you keep control.