Gundog Training Forum

Just looking to get a second, third etc opinion to check I have done everything I can and should although I feel the problem has improved:

My 4 month old spaniel pup is fine around food - I have made sure I hold bowl sometimes, take it away, give it back, make him wait etc No problem

He was very possessive over a bone but I can understand that to a degree although again, a aimed to address it by controlling the next bone as above. I feel he would still be the same though

BUT …
if he is picks up something he is not meant to have and you try to take it you get a growl and a very stiff body so quite bad body language. I have addressed it as I saw fit but want to see others ideas. He has done it with:
- A dropped lump of kitchen towel and other items dropped accidentally and grabbed by him
- My other dog's poo … he has a digestive disorder so he does not digest food fully so poo is attractive to pup and some other dogs

Clearly growling at me is not acceptable an neither is being so dominant over possessions … thanks for your ideas!

Briefly as no-one else has yet replied. Your 4 month old pup is not being dominant over possessions, he is a puppy and that is what puppies do. It is up to you to show him how to relinquish his prized possession and that is not by force and dominance on your part (your pup is not trying to dominate you). The best way is to offer him a swap for something else and not to confront him as this will make him worse. It could also affect his retrieving so that he plays keep away, never chase him, always accept whatever he is carrying even if it is your mobile phone in a calm way.

I agree with Jelinga, typical puppy behaviour. Go with the swaps. Try to clean up the attractive poo as soon as it is deposited - also teach Leave it! as your pup will be finding lots of yummy sheep poo on walks later.

Thanks Jelinga and Sgurr …. horse and cow poo both found already! And consumed in quantity!! "Leave it" starting to register although he thinks it means for a second not longer at this point but we will get there. I was worried about the "swap" in case this leads to dropping of game as they anticipate a treat - I think I've read that before. I take your points though, thank you.

You don't need to swap for food, you can use a toy/ball/another bone or indeed anything the pup is interested in.

Dropping the game or dummy in anticipation of a treat should never happen if you never give treat for a dropped article, only for one put in your hand, dog soon learns

Thanks Jelinga - very clear and helpful.

Jelinga wrote:Briefly as no-one else has yet replied. Your 4 month old pup is not being dominant over possessions, he is a puppy and that is what puppies do. It is up to you to show him how to relinquish his prized possession and that is not by force and dominance on your part (your pup is not trying to dominate you). The best way is to offer him a swap for something else and not to confront him as this will make him worse. It could also affect his retrieving so that he plays keep away, never chase him, always accept whatever he is carrying even if it is your mobile phone in a calm way.

Really ?

Surely growling is saying this is mine stay away. Im top dog I can keep this because I want to ?

A swap is giving in ?

DavidB wrote:Thanks Jelinga and Sgurr …. horse and cow poo both found already! And consumed in quantity!! "Leave it" starting to register although he thinks it means for a second not longer at this point but we will get there. I was worried about the "swap" in case this leads to dropping of game as they anticipate a treat - I think I've read that before. I take your points though, thank you.

Have you tried training "leave it" with things he does get as a reward? So having him wait for the dinner you have put down in front of him or a treat you have put on a table where he can see it. The advantage of this being that you can also teach "Take it" so that the concept of "Leave it" means exactly that - "leave it unless I tell you otherwise" and "take it" provides the reward.

Once he understands that "take it" will follow "leave it" you can work at extending the time between the two .. and of course eventually in the real world "take it" sometimes doesn't happen.

Similarly "hold" and "give" can be paired up to support not spitting the dummy - the reward (praise, another retrieve or treat) being provided for a successful "give" - timing is everything and training these pairs of commands will help you to reward the wanted behaviour more readily.

Cathy

manorfarm wrote:

Jelinga wrote:Briefly as no-one else has yet replied. Your 4 month old pup is not being dominant over possessions, he is a puppy and that is what puppies do. It is up to you to show him how to relinquish his prized possession and that is not by force and dominance on your part (your pup is not trying to dominate you). The best way is to offer him a swap for something else and not to confront him as this will make him worse. It could also affect his retrieving so that he plays keep away, never chase him, always accept whatever he is carrying even if it is your mobile phone in a calm way.

Really ?

Surely growling is saying this is mine stay away. Im top dog I can keep this because I want to ?

A swap is giving in ?

... in an adult maybe but with a youngster at 4 months a swap is teaching the pup that the partnership with you is a win-win. All good things come from you including a new and better object than the one he has gifted you.

Cathy

Thank you Cathy - I think your point is similar to the above but in a different way. Leave it can sound or be negative but take it / OK after a leave it is the positive. A friend of mine does this with the stop whistle - it is not stop but stop - look at me - get ready to do something good.

I do see the point by Manorfarm above too and for sure an older dog would need dealing with. It is un-nerving with a pup especially as the body language was so bad.

I can report that the dummy / tennis ball swap thing worked and got a good delivery or two just as Jelinga suggested above. He came to me (less running around me), I rolled the ball gently out of his mouth (he was happy with that) and he got the other as a retrieve.

Very helpful - thank you all ….