When is enough enough ?

[fenboy]

My Lab is now 13 months old , I have had several issues with his training most of which have been well documented on here.

The advice was to get him to a pro trainer this advice I took and he had 8 weeks away with one to one lessons to follow .

The dog will still not retrieve to hand 80-90 % of the time , he will still just run around like a demented thing with the dummy and it can take a age to coax him back to me .
The trainer was also having this problem perhaps not quite to the same extent but each time I went over to observe progress he had this issue.

So this mornings session ended with any retrieve I gave him ending in this way.

This afternoons session was a new one as he would either stop on the way out to or the way back from the dummy to sniff at scents etc if it was on the recall he would drop the dummy to sniff at the ground

I know the dog is still young but I also know he is useless to me the way he is , I am not sure if we are ever going to get this out of him .

So when is enough enough , if I need to re-home him as a pet then I will, but I would really hate to go down that route but it is now in the back of my mind that he is not going to make the grade and my time and money would be better spent on another dog

Its really getting me down and its not pleasant knowing the chances are I am going to have these issues every time I take him out .

Finally please no "you need to bond with the dog " replies , me and the dog get on just fine and I perhaps have the cleanest ears in Lincolnshire

[ESS]

What does the trainer say?

[Mandymoo]

Dont give up just yet. My youngest springer was a pain in the arse at this age, bolting off with and without dummies. I thought I would part company cause it was driving me mad. One little piece of advice that I thought I had heeded, was dont let him away with it then. That was went the penny dropped and and I got me a 30 foot training lead and he couldn't bolt off. Now I am not suggesting this is your answer but dont let him do it. Start again in a lane no distractions and no options for him to do anything else also bring every bit of patience you have. I know some people dont like to use treats here but I do. I dont give treats if they drop it though and I will tell them to pick it up. My youngster soon got the message. Good luck

[trekmoor]

If you want to keep him , clicker train him. That means you knowing more than you maybe do at the moment about clicker training..... and about breaking an exercise such as a simple retrieve down into little bits. C.T. (CLICKER TRAINING) is not an easy thing to learn over the Internet. I.M.O. it is best if you are shown and told how to do this by an experienced clicker trainer....perhaps inside an Obedience training hall ?

Something has gone seriously wrong with your training for a dog , especially a work bred lab, to behave like this. I doubt if anyone on here can pinpoint what is wrong over the net and if, after 2 months of residential training with a pro-trainer your dog still behaves in that way then , I think, you should either bite the bullet and find the dog a pet home or learn how to clicker train it.

Wullie

[trekmoor]

So this mornings session ended with any retrieve I gave him ending in this way.

This afternoons session was a new one as he would either stop on the way out to or the way back from the dummy to sniff at scents etc if it was on the recall he would drop the dummy to sniff at the ground

P.S. I think your dog is now offering you what I think are called "default behaviours" due to his uncertainty of what you actually do want ? I'd guess that you have in some way "poisoned" the retrieve .

Wullie

[fenboy]

What does the trainer say?

The trainer was a little non committal on if he will ever get the retrieving sorted , he did say he is a dog I will need to be constantly on top of .

[fenboy]

So this mornings session ended with any retrieve I gave him ending in this way.

This afternoons session was a new one as he would either stop on the way out to or the way back from the dummy to sniff at scents etc if it was on the recall he would drop the dummy to sniff at the ground

P.S. I think your dog is now offering you what I think are called "default behaviours" due to his uncertainty of what you actually do want ? I'd guess that you have in some way "poisoned" the retrieve .

Wullie

Not sure what you mean about poisoning the retrieve, he has been like this ever since he was introduced to the dummys , he has never been chased or shouted at when he is acting like that as I realise its futile , I have to calmly coax him back .

[Naj]

It's no use trying to 'coax' a dog/pup in when it has this type of problem. It needs training not coaxing, especially at 13 months of age. And this is a chronic problem that will take a long time to fully train out. I agree with Wullie that reward based methods might fix this but so could traditional ones, which I presume you are attempting to use at the moment. Clicker training sounds easy but, just as with traditional methods, you need a sound understanding of the methodology behind it if you are to be successful. Reading back over your history with this dog you appear to have a poor grasp of the mechanics of training & how to cope with problems in their early stages & in preventing their development. The playing keep-away & fooling around are simply 'displacement' behaviours that most pups try, but that you inadvertently have allowed to develop into serious problems. You could give the dog away but would likely be passing on your problem to somebody else, & you'd have learnt nothing in the process & may make the very same mistake with your next pup. Persevere & you may make something of the dog & learn a great deal in the process, but if you go along this route I would find somebody to train you how to train your dog. And all dogs need your constant attention throughout their life.

Naj

[Sgurr]

Why not have a month off training for both of you - take the stress away? Then follow trekmoor's suggestion and go for Clicker training, a totally new approach for you both.

[Bruneval3]

Be bold, get rid! Make sure he gets a nice pet home, with someone who will treat him purely as a pet, no pressure etc etc.