Hard mouth, delivery, and my fingers.

[ballymary]

Apologies in advance. This is a bit of a long saga. I have been fostering a 7 yo springer. The owner has been very ill, and I now think it is unlikely he will ever be well enough to have the dog back.
Digger has been with me since September. So far we have made lots of progress with loose lead walking, not barking for attention, and general manners.
This dog is totally ball obsessed, so I have been working on teaching him to retrieve a variety of items. He started out by racing for the ball, bringing it back, dropping it at my feet, then barking for me to throw it again. He is a quick learner, and now knows that if he wants me to throw it, He delivers it to my hand. If he barks, the ball goes in my pocket.
The problem is that he is very hard mouthed and chomps down on whatever is in his mouth. And he isn't very careful which has resulted in a bite mark on my hand a couple of times.
There is no malice in this dog at all. He is just clumsy.
I know that he will never be a gundog but does anyone have any tips or suggestions to encourage a safe delivery.
So far I have tried using a 2nd ball which sets him off barking and walking with him holding the ball. He will just carry the ball all the way back to the car. He isn't interested in food if he has a ball.
TIA

[Hepe]

I would make the dog drop the retrieve/ball in your hand on command rather than take them from him and/or use bigger items than a ball so you can take them safely with both of your hands on each side of his nose. So basically holding a hand/hands under and ask the dog to drop and catch the item or use bigger dummies which sticks out quite a bit. Another thing is to constantly work on nice calm delivery however you choose to do it. So have the dog sit and wait till he stops chomping before you reach out, if he starts to chomp as you reach for the item you either straighten again, removing your hand and/or pet him calmly under the chin and on each side of the nose without taking the item.

Helene

Ps. Well done for taking on an older dog and work on the issues rather than give up.

[ballymary]

Thanks Hepe. That all makes good sense. At the moment he can't do calm very well, but he has had 7 yrs of barking for what he wants. He is a very quick learner though and has already stopped throwing the ball at my feet. I will definitely try something bigger. He would destroy a canvas dummy in no time, so I feel a few DIY dummies coming on.

[Hepe]

Thanks Hepe. That all makes good sense. At the moment he can't do calm very well, but he has had 7 yrs of barking for what he wants. He is a very quick learner though and has already stopped throwing the ball at my feet. I will definitely try something bigger. He would destroy a canvas dummy in no time, so I feel a few DIY dummies coming on.

Right, a glass of wine later i feel ready to write more. What are you doing with the throwing? I am a bit hmmm about it to be honest. My real tip would be to make him work for his retrieves and not throw them at all. Combined with asking for a bit of control, sit and wait a little for example, it will do wonders with the chomping, more than adjusting how you take it without hurting yourself. I still have to remind my lovely Heavenly to take treats carefully or she'll get my fingers with it too and she's supposedly a well trained very nice lady.

So, are you doing any focused retrieves at all and do you let the dog hunt for the retrieve rather than throw marks? Blinds? Directional work? Yes i know it might be overbearing with an older untrained dog but it IS the way to go to get rid of chomping and stress related behavior, preferably combined with what you already do, demand a correct delivery 'as you want it', not bark bark stress stress. You already begun a good job with the dog, take it a step further if you haven't already.

Helene

[Hepe]

Thanks Hepe. That all makes good sense. At the moment he can't do calm very well, but he has had 7 yrs of barking for what he wants. He is a very quick learner though and has already stopped throwing the ball at my feet. I will definitely try something bigger. He would destroy a canvas dummy in no time, so I feel a few DIY dummies coming on.

Yes clever to make your own, no point spending money on things getting destroyed, do show us what you make, curious about what you will come up with.

Helene

[ballymary]

I have started doing some hidden retrieves, and he is learning how to use his nose to find them. I tried doing some directional work and that was a bit disastrous. Too much too soon I think. His recall is improving though and he is getting good at the stop whistle. I am realistic though about what this dog can achieve. I never intended to keep him. He was supposed to be a short term foster, so I don't really know what is in the future for him. Until he either goes back to his owner (unlikely) or is signed over, he will be staying with me so I will keep plugging away to see what we can do.
He is a really lovely dog with a kind nature, just a bit wild.

[Hepe]

I have started doing some hidden retrieves, and he is learning how to use his nose to find them. I tried doing some directional work and that was a bit disastrous. Too much too soon I think. His recall is improving though and he is getting good at the stop whistle. I am realistic though about what this dog can achieve. I never intended to keep him. He was supposed to be a short term foster, so I don't really know what is in the future for him. Until he either goes back to his owner (unlikely) or is signed over, he will be staying with me so I will keep plugging away to see what we can do.
He is a really lovely dog with a kind nature, just a bit wild.

I think you are great, so impressive that you are doing this!

Helene

[ballymary]

Thankyou, but in truth, I am enjoying the training challenge and learning lots along the way, without the pressure of producing a perfect gundog.

[Matt]

If you're struggling teaching directional retrieves you could start out with a food bowl instead of a dummy. It takes the whole delivery element out of it and brings the excitement down a little so the dog can focus a bit better...

[Redrob70]

For a cheap dummy alternative try the hard plastic, fur covered paint rollers.