Gundog Training Forum

Mrs Dawnrazor has sent me a link about someone who has a "pedigree cocker", had the dna teat done and it's come back as a cocker x springer, she has all the relevant paper work..........with Mr Openshaw signature on, I've copied and pasted the piece:
"Just over 7 yrs ago I paid £800 for what I believed was a Champion x Champion bred Cocker Spaniel, Zane-Mallowdale Pope of Naxshivan, full brother to FTCH Mallowdale Zander I was so very proud that I had been lucky enough to be able to buy a dog like this. I had all the paperwork that said in black and white he was a very well bred working cocker with the signature of his breeder Mr Ian Openshaw.
Due to recent information being brought to light via Credible Cockers and other sources I was put in a position whereby I suspected there was a good chance Zane was perhaps not as pure as I thought, as I’m sure most of you know a DNA test is available that can determine the breeds within your dog from a cheek swab. I health test all my dogs so felt I really should take advantage of this DNA test also.
At the end of last week I received the result of the submitted swab that sadly confirmed my suspicion that Zane is in fact a Springer Spaniel, Cocker Spaniel Cross, as you can imagine I was devastated.
It has taken me a little while to get my head around the result, I have had a lot of support from good friends that has made my decision easier, I feel if I am not open and honest with my findings then I am as bad as the people responsible for this huge mess.
I am mortified that I have had this dog at stud in good faith and I have bred and sold pups to good friends, 19 litters have been produced that I have, hand on heart believed were pure Cockers.
I am also upset for so many other people that have also done the test and found that what they thought was also a pure bred Cocker again were not what it said on the paperwork.
I don’t know how much trouble I am going to get in for posting this information but I have always been upfront and honest and I feel sitting and saying nothing makes me as bad as the people involved in this corruption and I am not prepared to cover up for other people’s wrong doing.
I am currently in the process of testing the rest of my dogs and I will again be honest and open with you all when the results arrive although my other dogs are not from the same breeding lines as Zane so hopefully have not been tarred as his breeding has.
I have also been sent an email anonymously that outlines the depth of the corruption, to say I was shocked when I read this email that I believe has also been sent to The Kennel Club was an understatement.
I am so so sorry and I hope after the initial shock of this information you will be able to accept I honestly had no idea about the depth of corruption and rest assured I will not allow this to lie and I along with a lot of other people will be personally asking the hard questions until I get some explanation for this truly shocking situation.
I apologise for the timing on this but I felt it needed to be addressed as soon as possible.
I have attached a copy of the DNA report i received.

see Naxshivan gundogs facebook page for more details"

This cat will be difficult to get back in the bag!!!
Edit.
Don't shoot the messenger!!!

Have a look at her website and see her dogs at stud. http://www.naxshivangundogs.co.uk/stud-dogs.html

Wondered who would be brave enough to post it first.

All I'm saying is that it has serious implications for previous championship winners if proven to be true.

Strathcraig wrote:Wondered who would be brave enough to post it first.

All I'm saying is that it has serious implications for previous championship winners if proven to be true.

Can't see it not being true, why would someone put thier name to something with such legal ramifications as this? She has the DNA test report, she has the signature of the breeder, she has the Kennel Club registration form, a legal document, what else does she need?

Maybe could have worded that better - "if accepted as true" maybe.

Those with a vested interest in fighting this will, and have the means to do so

Strathcraig wrote:Maybe could have worded that better - "if accepted as true" maybe.

Those with a vested interest in fighting this will, and have the means to do so

"accepted as true" by Who? The Kennel Club? Openshaw?

Both I think

Has it not been said on here that the company carrying out the DNA test state that the test results are not intended to be used in any judicial proceedings.

Have a look at this dogs pedigree and then have a look at the DNA results. The results suggest that Grandparents on both sides were cocker x springer and that Great Grandparents on both sides had cocker x springer. If that is the case and if the test has any credibility then this brings in to question other lines!

As Strathcraig say's, this then brings in to question other championship winners. How many generations of breeding will be required before offspring are considered to be true should anything be proven?

Strathcraig wrote:Both I think

This is looking like a case for trading standards I think? If Openshaw has been registering cocker x springers, knowingly, and selling them at £800/£1000 per pup as pure cockers, the price that ftch x ftch pups go for, how is this not fraud?, are the Kennel Club not culpable for registering these pups if they have been alerted to possible goings on and continued to register pups? I think now that the first head is over the parapet there will be more, but just think about the repercussions!!!! Will the Kennel Club have to reimburse owners of mongrels with KC registration papers? Will Openshaw have to reimburse the Kc? There could be thousands of 1/2 - 3/4 bred registered sprockers out there and all the owners will, I think, have reasonable justification to take legal action?

David wrote:Has it not been said on here that the company carrying out the DNA test state that the test results are not intended to be used in any judicial proceedings.

Have a look at this dogs pedigree and then have a look at the DNA results. The results suggest that Grandparents on both sides were cocker x springer and that Great Grandparents on both sides had cocker x springer. If that is the case and if the test has any credibility then this brings in to question other lines!

As Strathcraig say's, this then brings in to question other championship winners. How many generations of breeding will be required before offspring are considered to be true should anything be proven?

How many Indeed? But just because it's complicated does that mean there's no way to tackle this?