Playing keep away

[AndyH]

My cocker has just turned six months old and has developed the most infuriating habit in the last couple of weeks. Whilst on a walk he has started finding objects to pick up, his favourite being discarded poo bags from other dogs (lovely) and refusing to come back to me. This is coinciding with a noticeable deterioration in his recall even when he doesn't have anything in his mouth, which used to be pretty solid. It also transfers into his training when doing any retrieving, his delivery has never been great but I had got him to the point where he was coming back in fairly readily 75% of the time, but that's fallen off a cliff as well.

I've tried sitting down and ignoring him completely but that doesn't seem to make any difference so I try and calmly corner him and stick the lead on but that can take anything up to 20 or 30 minutes.

My first question is when/if he does come in should I be praising him, as he eventually made the decision to come or will that reinforce that his behaviour before that was acceptable. And if I have to corner him should he be getting a telling off, or will that exacerbate his reluctance to come.

I'm thinking I'll go back to basic recall and retrieving in the garden and then stick a long line on him if we're out elsewhere until I can stop this, or at least get him to bring whatever he's found to me. Does that sound like a reasonable course of action and does anyone have any advice on how to get him over this?

[Rough_mut]

Sounds like a combination of issues really;

1) picking up poo bags, does the dog know a leave it command? Mine always has as we have young ones in the house but I have found it transferred outside on half eaten rotten rabbits, and the odd bird skeleton he finds.

2) lack of recall - id address this on its own really as it will only get worse in the presence of game and guns etc.

3) delivery - not coming back with a retrieve I wouldn't say is necessarily a recall issue, he's found a better game of playing keep away so as you have mentioned work on this in the face of no distraction and then introduce the temptations of the world outside your garden as you go along? I used treats.... because I am lazy! He ate is tea out of my hand bit by bit for allowing me to take a ball out of his mouth. (As opposed to him bringing me the ball if that makes sense? Eventually he was bringing me the ball). He was just a pet dog then but my knackered joints don't allow too much bending down!

I know most say don't punish the dog for coming back eventually but I settle for a happy medium and put the lead on and don't say a word!

Not sure if that's any use, I'm pretty clueless so take it all with a pinch of salt!

Rm

[CockerCanuck]

Welcome to the teenage months. Just like people almost every dog starts to challenge accepted authority between 6-18 months. You are not alone, I went through the same thing with my Chesapeake pup this fall at round the same age. I am sure others will have advice but here is how I fixed it.

First I stopped throwing regular retrieves for him all together. No sense letting the problem become conditioned by repeating over and over. I then started working with a paint roller. Just with my hands, praise and verbal correction I taught him the command hold (no force) and release (I use the command Thank you for the dog to release). It took a couple of weeks but I did a lot in the house and sitting on a chair so I did not have to bend down to him. Short 5-10 minute lessons. Soon I had him that he would carry it at heel and I could sit him in front of me and call him in and sit him and he would hold. When he dropped it a gentle correction and put it back in his mouth. I then taught fetch as a separate exercise first by teasing with the paint roller and getting him to grab it and lots of excited praise when he did. He was always enthusiastic about going after dummies but the two commands "fetch" and "hold" gave me something to work with. Then started to do the same thing with dummies and dead pigeons. While all this was going on I also ratcheted up my expectation of recall. First on a long line and then a short one he dragged but I could grab if he ignored me. Lot's of treats and praise when he came in.

When I first put it all together I went to a local park with some small bridges and threw the dummie on the other side. Once he started back before he had time to think about doing anything else he was on the bridge with no where else to go. I called him in a friendly tone and used the command hold and asked him to sit in front of me. It all came together quite nicely. I stuck with the bridges and only a few retrieves a day for about a week before moving to more open ground. Fingers crossed he is still doing well now.

[Naj]

I don’t think the dog is necessarily challenging anything, it’s simply entering another critical and entirely natural period of development that all pups go through where it would be cutting maternal ties, reaching sexual maturity and becoming an individual. So you can expect it becoming more independent minded and explorative for a few months. You just have to give it a helping hand by working through it.

I agree with CC in that it’s a case of maintaining boundaries, being consistent and in the case of keep away, stop the self reinforcement by use of a training cord and/or backchaining the retrieve, starting with the delivery. You don’t need to be harsh with this, and just understand that all pups go through this process but it doesn’t last forever and you’ll both come out the other side with your relationship intact if you handle it sensibly and don’t overreact.

Naj

[westcountry]

Welcome to the teenage months. Just like people almost every dog starts to challenge accepted authority between 6-18 months. You are not alone, I went through the same thing with my Chesapeake pup this fall at round the same age. I am sure others will have advice but here is how I fixed it.

First I stopped throwing regular retrieves for him all together. No sense letting the problem become conditioned by repeating over and over. I then started working with a paint roller. Just with my hands, praise and verbal correction I taught him the command hold (no force) and release (I use the command Thank you for the dog to release). It took a couple of weeks but I did a lot in the house and sitting on a chair so I did not have to bend down to him. Short 5-10 minute lessons. Soon I had him that he would carry it at heel and I could sit him in front of me and call him in and sit him and he would hold. When he dropped it a gentle correction and put it back in his mouth. I then taught fetch as a separate exercise first by teasing with the paint roller and getting him to grab it and lots of excited praise when he did. He was always enthusiastic about going after dummies but the two commands "fetch" and "hold" gave me something to work with. Then started to do the same thing with dummies and dead pigeons. While all this was going on I also ratcheted up my expectation of recall. First on a long line and then a short one he dragged but I could grab if he ignored me. Lot's of treats and praise when he came in.

When I first put it all together I went to a local park with some small bridges and threw the dummie on the other side. Once he started back before he had time to think about doing anything else he was on the bridge with no where else to go. I called him in a friendly tone and used the command hold and asked him to sit in front of me. It all came together quite nicely. I stuck with the bridges and only a few retrieves a day for about a week before moving to more open ground. Fingers crossed he is still doing well now.

sounds good to me.

[AndyH]

Thanks guys, I suspected it was probably adolescence kicking in. I guess a bit of patience and lots of consistency and everything will be dandy. Patience isn't my strong point but I guess it's a learning curve for both of us!