Very quick question on loose leash

[KMYN]

Dog: 3.5 month Springer

This was mentioned in another more general thread that I made about my puppy Bear, but I just wanted to ask more specifically about this.

The main reason I ask the question is because I just thought I'd try a drill I'd found that Cass had described to Ips which worked well for him, so I went to the green at the end of our road and as I started all Bear wanted to do was go to every leaf or dandelion and wasn't even pulling in front of me. I know of course I could have waited this out and then started the exercise but, it occurred to me that maybe he is too young?

I just wanted to check that I'm right in thinking that loose-leash can be improved upon straight away despite his age?

Edit: Trying to find the answer to this has led me to think there is a more fundamental question:

Does pulling for a few minutes each day when young cause problems later or should correcting it be left until 6+ months old to prevent inhibiting the puppy in any way?

Thanks all.

[ips]

Your not on your own KMYN. My cocker is hundred times better than she was but no were near as good as I would like. Its a constant battle, sometimes she is great and sometimes reverts to pulling mode (but not digging in like she used to) I think your right and timing is critical in whatever method you use. Trouble is like yourself I am also inexperienced and I fear that all her faults including loose lead (or rather lack of) were inadvertently trained by me...anyway one has to have realistic expectations of our first attempt at training a dog
Onwards and upwards

PS
With hindsight I would train loose lead and 100% reliable off lead heel before anything else and by whatever method worked.

[Springfield Pointers]

The trick in getting a dog to not pull, is not to accept the dog pulling.

[KMYN]

I've just seen this from Christopher Upton whose name I've seen mentioned on here:

"If it's a young pup that is pulling. Make nothing of it at a early stage. As you don't want the pup to see it as a negative at about 8-12 months of age I would tidy it up. I have videos on how I do that on YouTube. Don't forget people send me dogs for training at all ages. It's so easy to train a young puppy lead work but you are suppressing it from the start if you start tidying up the heel work. Retrievers are just the same. Suppression from the start changes the whole dogs mindset. It all depends on what you want."

I'm starting to realise that there is more than one way (more like a million) to skin a cat, or train a Gundog...

[Dartmoordog]

Not sure if this will help SP, but I saw a Cocker “cured” of pulling on the leash in less than 10 minutes, I was truly amazed.

I was at a game fair in the Westcountry watching the gundog demo by a guy I had seen on numerous occasions around the country, sorry I cannot remember his name. After his demo I strolled over to see him and have a chat, just as I got to him a lady turned up with a Cocker sounding like a steam train, pulling like a good un. Simple question “how can I stop this little shit from pulling like this”. Easy, sat it and repositioned the slip lead so it was right up behind the dogs ears, then gave it 5 or 6 upwards jerks, nothing harsh, just to let the dog know it was there.

He then walked around with the dog and every time the dog went ahead he gave it a couple of upward jerks, with a few minutes the dog was behaving itself. The lady walked away under her own steam. I helped my friend out with his ESS, same procedure same result.

Good luck.

[KMYN]

I guess the more fundamental question would be:

Does pulling for a few minutes each day when young cause problems later or should correcting it be left until 6+ months old to prevent inhibiting the puppy in any way?

There seems to be a difference of opinion here. I suspect people who only need puppies on leads for short/no time per day are more likely to think the latter? What about in my position where the puppy is required to be on-lead for say 8-10 minutes per day on average?

[Naj]

It all depends on what methods you use. If you use quite harsh correction to ‘tidy it up’ then you risk squashing the drive if applied to a young pup, although I used to use light lead jerks at one time without doing so. But if you leave it until later because of this then you’re teaching a pup to pull only to then punish it at a later date for doing something you’ve trained it to do, which doesn’t sit well with me. And once a pup has pulling in its repertoire of behaviours it’s likeky to crop up again and again. An alternative is management through a halti or figure of eight lead around the muzzle if you’re happy with that. I use reward based methods and the 300 peck technique is best for long duration behaviours like heeling. But heeling is not an easy thing for a dog to understand whatever method you use and whatever age you begin the training, especially with a breed like a spaniel. It makes sense for a dog never to learn that pulling works from the get go but that’s difficult if you have to walk your dog on leash every time you take it out.

Naj

[KMYN]

It all depends on what methods you use. If you use quite harsh correction to ‘tidy it up’ then you risk squashing the drive if applied to a young pup, although I used to use light lead jerks at one time without doing so. But if you leave it until later because of this then you’re teaching a pup to pull only to then punish it at a later date for doing something you’ve trained it to do, which doesn’t sit well with me. And once a pup has pulling in its repertoire of behaviours it’s likeky to crop up again and again. An alternative is management through a halti or figure of eight lead around the muzzle if you’re happy with that. I use reward based methods and the 300 peck technique is best for long duration behaviours like heeling. But heeling is not an easy thing for a dog to understand whatever method you use and whatever age you begin the training, especially with a breed like a spaniel. It makes sense for a dog never to learn that pulling works from the get go but that’s difficult if you have to walk your dog on leash every time you take it out.

Naj

I think your last sentence is a key point. If I really wanted to I could take him in the car 10 minutes to private land and virtually never have him on-lead but the Mrs would never let me do that when we have park/woods 2 minutes walk away where she wants to walk him. He's off-lead during the walk.

Personally I think I'd be comfortable with the leads you mentioned but I don't think I'd use one in public to save being judged. I'll take a look into the 300 peck technique, thanks.

[Springfield Pointers]

I've just seen this from Christopher Upton whose name I've seen mentioned on here:

"If it's a young pup that is pulling. Make nothing of it at a early stage. As you don't want the pup to see it as a negative at about 8-12 months of age I would tidy it up. I have videos on how I do that on YouTube. Don't forget people send me dogs for training at all ages. It's so easy to train a young puppy lead work but you are suppressing it from the start if you start tidying up the heel work. Retrievers are just the same. Suppression from the start changes the whole dogs mindset. It all depends on what you want."

I'm starting to realise that there is more than one way (more like a million) to skin a cat, or train a Gundog...

Not sure I'd agree with that advice.

[AndyH]

I've been using the method described by Dartmoordog with my cocker pup for the last couple of months, which stopped the pulling (mostly) but he was still leading me/darting towards interesting objects rather than a holding a stricter heel position. Now that he's six months and his concentration is a bit better I spent time with a trainer yesterday getting him to hold the heel position and using this method (admittedly with some slightly harsher correction) he understood within 5 minutes and hasn't broken heel on the lead since. So I would say start getting the basics in place to stop the pulling now, and you can always tidy things up into proper heel work once he's a little older.