Gundog Training Forum

Sadly, 10 years after the DNA was was introduced, untested dogs are still being mated.

Penwills Doug PRA Cord 1 Affected

Sire Shalloakwest Phantom
Dam Kirstzo Degree
both parents should be considered as Carriers.

Grandparents:
Denford Danny Of Belvden
Regal Vision
Flaxdale Jamie (Clear for PRA Cord 1)
Dawsonlee Bracken
as Jamie is Clear, Bracken should be considered a Carrier. Bracken has Denford Danny Of Belvden as sire and Woodstorm Avril as dam. Avril has a Clear bitch by Buccleuch Pepper so the odds seem to be stacking on Danny being a Carrier (sired 549 pups but only one tested, a Clear).

The test is about £50, is there a price on the heartbreak of having an Affected pup?

I used Vatanen, his grandsire is Denford Danny and a bitch from the litter is PRA clear. The dam wasn't tested.

I can also see he sired another 5 all clear too, so does it point to him with them all coming back clear?

I can see the only dog to be tested directly from Danny is clear also for PRA?

FTCh Belvden Collingwood, son of Danny, also has a number of progeny out of various bitches tested clear for PRA. I think we are casting the net too soon !

If you look at Belvden Vatanen then it's best to consider his sire Halaze Hickory of Edgegrove has 12 tested Clears and 0 Carriers and Vatanen's dam Rydanlue Breeze has 1 tested Clear, and of the 13 tested descendants from her, 12 are Clear and the only Carrier comes from a planned mating of a Carrier to a Clear. I'd say the odds are that HH of E, R Breeze and BV are all untested Clears.

Belvden Collingwood, son of Danny, has 6 pups tested Clear for PRA Cord 1 and another 8 descendants tested Clear, so it is likely that he too is an untested Clear.

A Carrier can pass either a normal gene or a mutant gene to its offspring so there is no issue with R Breeze and B Collingwood being likely untested Clears. If you look at the original post, then Phantom got the mutant gene either from Danny or Regal Vision. Kirstzo Degree has a Clear sire so look at the dam and Dawsonlee Bracken is sired by Danny. Penwills Doug has a COI of 17.6%, that's the chance of inheriting the same gene from a common ancestor ie one on both sides of the pedigree, and the nearest common ancestor in this case is Danny. Also Danny's sire Laganmill Malvern is the grandsire of Raven Inquest who sired a Carrier pup on a Clear bitch. Danny isn't going to be siring any more pups (born 1998) unless there are some of his straws about but it is as well to be aware of problems in breeding lines.

The point of this post is to highlight how inexpensive the test is and only one of the parents needs to test Clear to ensure there will be no Affecteds in a litter, so it is about £50 compared to the sale value of the litter, somewhere around £5000 perhaps. I have no problem with Carriers being bred to Clears, the gene pool needs to be kept as wide as possible, but there is no reason whatsover to produce Affecteds, that's just sloppy, greedy breeding practices.

I'm sorry Enid I agree with you in most matters but I take exception to you calling this mating of a FTCh to a winning bitch sloppy, greedy breeding.

I fully understand you reporting breed health issues as you see fit as I say, and I agree it is regrettable and preventable but intentionally sloppy and greedy it was not.

Nah, I agree with Enid, not testing a FTCh dog is sloppy in this day and age especially given the amount of influence he is likely to have, rightly or wrongly, on the gene pool. Arguably a bitch has less influence given that she will only produce four litters. At the end of the day its not just the affected pups that suffer but the whole gene pool, test, use carriers provided the other dog is tested clear but do your best not to breed affected pups, its not hard to do and its not expensive either.

A year or so ago, they were asking owners of springers to send in samples (to the Animal Health Trust, I think) for FREE testing. I sent in samples for all three of my lads (who were all clear), but nobody could claim expense as reason for not testing.

One of our bitches was sired by Denford Danny of Belvden and has tested clear. One of our other bitches has him as her Grandfather on maternal side and has also tested clear. The four pups we kept from the second bitch have also all tested clear.

Well done for testing , thank you.

I think it’s been known for sometime that the dog in question is a carrier, quite sometime!