Labrador elbow scores?

[Dawnrazor]

My lab bitch has 0-0 elbow scores despite coming from a dam with 1-1 elbows.
The mother was bred 4 times, each time to a sire with 0-0 elbows and to my knowledge the pups that have been tested have had clear elbows.
If I put my bitch to a sire with 0-0 elbows, will the pups have clear elbows or will the 1-1 of the grand dam have a knock on effect?

[Judy]

Depends on what's behind in the Sire's lines as well as the bitch's.

[reidller]

If you use the ebv tool on MYKC it will give you a better picture of the likelihood of bad elbows being passed on from your bitch, do the same for whichever sire you use and it puts the odds in your favour, or not.

[Dawnrazor]

If you use the ebv tool on MYKC it will give you a better picture of the likelihood of bad elbows being passed on from your bitch, do the same for whichever sire you use and it puts the odds in your favour, or not.

Thanks.
It says my bitch has a score of 0, evb of 20 and a confidence of 61%.
The sire I want to use has a score of - , evb of - 11 and a confidence of 48%.
What does this mean for the pups?

[reidller]

From how I understand it, your pups would have 0.5 of a deviation worse than average chance of having bad elbows, but make of that what you will. I looked into it when I bred my bitch who had a high hip score on one side, its an absolute minefield and only as good as the scores submitted by other dog owners, and a lot of the really bad ones don't get sent in so it's a false average anyway. Add to that that some research says environmental factors play as big a part as hereditary ones and it becomes clear as mud. I'm certianly no expert, but I were you and I thought the bitch was worth breeding from, I'd go for it.

[Dawnrazor]

From how I understand it, your pups would have 0.5 of a deviation worse than average chance of having bad elbows, but make of that what you will. I looked into it when I bred my bitch who had a high hip score on one side, its an absolute minefield and only as good as the scores submitted by other dog owners, and a lot of the really bad ones don't get sent in so it's a false average anyway. Add to that that some research says environmental factors play as big a part as hereditary ones and it becomes clear as mud. I'm certianly no expert, but I were you and I thought the bitch was worth breeding from, I'd go for it.

Thanks very much for your help, Its the first thing people ask nowadays apparently, never ask if the parents are good just if they're health tested!!
I'd use a sire with 1 on the elbows if I thought it was a good hard hunting dog despite the score, I'm keeping a pup for myself but you've got to think about getting the rest sold.

[Springcopse spaniels]

From how I understand it, your pups would have 0.5 of a deviation worse than average chance of having bad elbows, but make of that what you will. I looked into it when I bred my bitch who had a high hip score on one side, its an absolute minefield and only as good as the scores submitted by other dog owners, and a lot of the really bad ones don't get sent in so it's a false average anyway. Add to that that some research says environmental factors play as big a part as hereditary ones and it becomes clear as mud. I'm certianly no expert, but I were you and I thought the bitch was worth breeding from, I'd go for it.

I was under the impression, that all scores are submitted regardless as they are sent direct from the examiner?

[reidller]

It is the first thing I got asked quite often, rightly or wrongly people seem to be choosing dogs on health test results first, then temperament and ability second. I had several people who didn't understand what the health test are or actually mean, just that they'd been told 'make sure it's health tested'.

[reidller]

[quote="Springcopse spaniels" post_id=287633 time=

I was under the impression, that all scores are submitted regardless as they are sent direct from the examiner?
[/quote]
No, you pay your vet to do the xrays first, then send them to the bva with another payment to grade them. Most vets are fairly good at estimating the scores, so if they look bad will often tell you to save some money and not bother sending then off. Hence the average hip score is probably far lower than the reality.

[Dawnrazor]

[quote="Springcopse spaniels" post_id=287633 time=

I was under the impression, that all scores are submitted regardless as they are sent direct from the examiner?

No, you pay your vet to do the xrays first, then send them to the bva with another payment to grade them. Most vets are fairly good at estimating the scores, so if they look bad will often tell you to save some money and not bother sending then off. Hence the average hip score is probably far lower than the reality.
[/quote]
Yep, "flashing" it's called in Lab circles!!! There's a few vets that'll tell you whether to send the results in or not, that's why a lot are now tested at 11 months, the KC will not accept results from a dog of less than 12 months, this is why, and more than a few Lab trailers have "advised" me never never never ever ever buy a labrador that's between 11 and 16 months old!!!
All this is giving a faulse impression when it comes to hips, elbows and eys scores.