Gundog Training Forum

Hi All,

My Springer (8) has been going stiff on his hind leg after long/runs for around 12 months now, possibly longer.

The vet I was at thought arthritis and recommended diet plans etc but persuaded me it's probably quite normal for an 8yr old dog to have some stiffness after a shoot day and probably an onset of arthritis.

Hes only ever been stiff that night, and then next day 100%, with no limping during the excercise itself.

Fast forward to now, about a month ago he was limping whilst on a walk itself (normally involves lots of retrieving) so I took him to our new vet who did xrays. Xrays revealed achipped ankle (not a clue when this has happened) that shouldn't be causing an issue, and some infusion on the bone which would commonly suggest a cruciate issue? (No idea if this is true). Hips and joint structure all ok from what the xray revealed and no sign of arhutirtus etc

They now want to CT scan at a cost of £1000 which I dont mind doing however the end result would be either rest or surgery.

It seems very strange to me that this could be cruciate related as apart from him limping twice on walks (could be the chip?) He doesn't limp or hobble, and he appears to be 100%. Up until in the evening when he is a bit stiff/lame however when you manipulate the job and whole leg there is no sign of pain what so ever? And once he has got moving he's back to normal.

I guess what I'm asking is does this sound a cruciate problem or are we barking up the wrong tree?

Rm

If you can get to a McTimoney chiropractor for animals I would make an appointment. If you are within reach of Norfolk I can recommend one

Having had two dogs with cruciate problems it doesn’t sound like it to me, bearing in mind I’m not a vet...I agree with Lynn’s advice and that’s the route I would take.

Rascal

Rascal wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2019 2:43 pm Having had two dogs with cruciate problems it doesn’t sound like it to me, bearing in mind I’m not a vet...I agree with Lynn’s advice and that’s the route I would take.

Rascal

Hi rascal,

What symptoms do yours have, instant lameness?

Rm

Yes and afterwards a total reluctance to put that foot to the floor and if they did it was just toe touching. On all occasions it was ruptured and once you’ve seen it there is no mistaking it. From what you’re describing it doesn’t sound the same? I’m wondering if the chipped bone has altered your dog’s gait causing muscles to act differently and I think I would explore that further...

Rascal

Hi rascal,

Interestingly when he was about 18 months he had a suspect rupture, instant lameness but it went after he was resred for about 4 days. The vets suggested to rest him further and he got better.

We have had the old notes sent through and it was on that leg.

I am now wondering if in fact what they are seeing on the xray is the old injury?

Bearing in mind he has worked two seasons with this lameness after rest.

Strangely when hes rested and he goes lame on that leg, you can manipulate the leg any way you want and he doesn't flinch.

Really lost with what to do but I think without getting a ct scan I'm probably not going to know however I question whether or not a great lot can be done with an 8 1/2 year old dog.

I'm going to go into the vets next week to discuss further however the dog is currently charging around with the puppy as if nothing is wrong?

RM, this is purely anecdotal and may have no value but I use to have a small loose bone chip in my right knee. Depending on where it was positioned a I either could not feel it at all or it caused significant pain. It had nothing to do with exercise just random floating around in my knee joint. This went on for several years and I was considering sugary to have it removed when it just disappeared. Not sure if somehow it dissolved or just moved somewhere I can't feel it.

CockerCanuck wrote: ↑Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:33 am RM, this is purely anecdotal and may have no value but I use to have a small loose bone chip in my right knee. Depending on where it was positioned a I either could not feel it at all or it caused significant pain. It had nothing to do with exercise just random floating around in my knee joint. This went on for several years and I was considering sugary to have it removed when it just disappeared. Not sure if somehow it dissolved or just moved somewhere I can't feel it.

Funny enough this was my first thought as well, actually I tell a lie, my first thought was they need someone to pay for their Cat. scanner Hope the boy is in not too much discomfort though and hope the situation resolves it self soon.

To be honest hes fine.
Two walks a day but only 20 mins and he has the odd hobble but returns to normal.

I'm convinced it's not his cruciate, my money is on the loose chip and/or arthiruts surrounding a previous suspect cruciate tear a long time ago.

I've only spoken to a foreign vet so I'm going in on Monday to have an actual discussion with someone I understand.

He is a very reactive dog (will take your face off when injured) and when hes holding his leg I can poke/prod/pull without him even flinching.

Hes 8 1/2 and has had a tough paper round, but I'm reluctant to go down the cruciate route as it just doesn't sound right?

May I ask, how much retrieving he is actually doing, and why you feel the need for constant repetition?
My oftaw is manic for retrieve but he doesn't get many on a walk, he is fully versed in his job. The constant hard pounding of joints this time of year and repetitive strains are high on high impact surfaces even such as grass.
A friend's ftch was gifted to a friend of his, won 3 open stakes and smashing hound, yet the new owner went out with one of them ball throwers, out back, out back, out back SNAP! Cruciate gone. The owner was livid and they haven't spoken in 6 years.
Just because the dogs want and can do it we should be the limiting factor for the sake of their health.
Not saying this is obviously the case with yours, just a thought.
1000 i'd be finding a nice hydrotherapy pool to help him.