Gundog Training Forum

So my wife and I have been "self isolating" now for almost a month on our rural property. On one hand it is a great place to be with lots of land around and no chance of running into anyone else. On the other hand it has been getting more difficult to keep busy especially with stuff you enjoy. (I still have a long list of cleaning, organizing and repairs to do).

I had an idea I would take on a project with the dogs. I have learned on GTF how common it is for large groups of dogs to work together at a shoot over there. However, it is not the same here. Most NA dogs work alone. You will probably be surprised but I have never trained my two together. Partly because they are different ages Fergal the Cocker was already trained when Hamish the CBR arrived. Also I have them for very different jobs. Fergal is used exclusively for rough-shooting and Hamish for waterfowl retrieving. In any case I have always trained them separately. The issue is further complicated by the fact they don't like each other. A few months ago they actually broke into a fight a couple of times complete with blood and pierced ears and lips. Thankfully I have that under control now and they are living peacefully in the house together again but they just ignore each other most of the time. They have always had a twice a day 20 minute free-running walk together along with my wife's dog and get along fine during that as they are both just focused on running and sniffing.

Day 1. They are both quite good at their basic obedience so I started on the first day just walking with them off leash with a heel command. They are both good and dependable on this on there own however unfortunately I have only thought it on the left side. They were not that keen on being so close together but they did it. They got more comfortable when I let Fergal trail just behind Hamish. (I think he is happier when he can keep an eye on him). I have not yet decided if I will just live with this or teach one to heel on the other side. The good news was they were both very happy and good with each other trough the lesson so I decided to carry on.

Day 2. My plan was to bring in heeling one while the other worked out front. This was sort of amusing. It worked very well one way, not so much the other. Hamish has the best heel so I started with them both by my side and cast Fergal off. It worked great! They were like the have been doing this their whole life. In fact I think Hamish would be very happy working as a non-slip retriever with pointing dogs. As long as he get's to retrieve he is not interested in much else. However, when I reversed things it does not work so well. Of course the Cocker is less content when walking at heel. He does it because he knows he has to but he is constantly looking for some signal for release. Hamish is the opposite. He saw no reason to go out and seek anything while Fergal was at my heel. He seemed to be thinking "if you guys are going to walk together I just want to walk along with you".

Day 3. My goal this day was to add seperate recalls. After a bit of our heeling work I cast them both off. Once they were out a way I blew a stop whistle. Both brown buts hit the ground at the same time and they looked back at me. I called Hamish but as I expected both started coming in. It took several repetitions with light corrections for Fergal to get that he was supposed to stay while Hamish came in. It worked better the other way around but Hamish does have a better sit/stay because of the way I use him. After a few repetitions I was thinking we were getting pretty good at this but then I stopped them when they were only a yard apart. I learned something here. When they were further apart I thought they were recalling in response to their name. However, this got MUCH harder when they were close together. I realised it had less to do with my voice command and much more to do with eye contact. They had quickly learned to only come when I was looking at them but found it much harder when they were close and both thought I was looking at them. I can see this will take more work, starting further apart and slowly working them in closer together.

So that is where we are now. I think I will continue on the heel, stop and recall work again today and in the next day or so. I will then introduce retrieving. They are both quite steady until sent (at least when worked alone). However, I need to proceed with caution here. They are both mad to retrieve and I don't want to energize any hostility which could come out of jealousy. I will take a very positive but go slow approach to ensure that this does not happen.

If you find this interesting I will continue to update. Are any of you doing anything out of the normal routine with your dogs during isolation?

That sounds like great fun and gives you and the dogs new things to think about. After the initial training I've tended to train my labs together, one is nearly 10 and the other coming 3. I'll set up and then send one dog whilst the other sits up, then change or sometimes send the same dog again so they don't second guess. I sometimes send one for a dummy to the left and the other for a dummy to right, and then it gets interesting with the stop whistle and handling, but after some early confusion they get it. If my shoulders are square to the dog they know I'm 'talking' to them. I've also tried sending them to opposite ends of a 100m ditch / hedge and get them working towards each other - the youngster sometimes gets too excited and breaks to join the older dog, more practice required. The main reason I train them together is time, but I think there is a real benefit in terms of steadiness etc, as long as you don't create a dependency between the young dog and the older dog.

No doubt the above is frowned upon by serious dog trainers, but it suits me!

Love the title of this thread. I would say our dogs are a great source of comfort in these strange and troubling times.
Keep it going CC, always great to read about you and your dogs.
Here in the UK we are allowed and hour of exercise, so,I hurry quickly walking to the arable farmland, tracks and woods, as fast as I can, which takes twenty mins, and the two young ones hunt and run either side of me in fields, for half an hour then we sadly track back again. I used to be out about two and a half hours, having a leisurely stroll, doing some retrieving, sitting on a log watching the buzzards...
It all feels a rush, and what's more it seems that everybody else has discovered 'my walks' so I'm having to leap out of the way of runners and cyclists, couples with all terrain baby buggies, and people walking dogs that have probably never been outside their own gardens before. But of course it is their right to exercise. When someone comes within fifteen yards of me and dogs, we re group and move a good way away, I sit them both, and we wait while they have passed by. That's nothing new, but I am training or trying to, to get my dogs to ignore completely other dogs coming over wanting to check them out or engage in play.
Hard for the youngest one, she likes a good game of chase...perhaps not a good idea though at the moment?
After that we are left with patio play, not even a garden at the moment, as we've just had all the conifers ripped out, and re seeded the lawn about a month ago. So, it's hiding things for them to find, kibble scattered and hidden while they watch wait and drool, hunt your own dinner game. Stuffed frozen Kong, always wears them out, and the latest game is taking an old rug outside and hiding some small thing underneath it. Dogs take it turn to watch and wait, then they have to find the article I've put underneath by whatever way they can. Mainly it's an Artic Fox like jump and a mad scrabble by the young one, but she is learning to get the corner of the rug and peel it back to get to what's hidden. And plenty of ball catching.

All this is different for me and them, and when this is all over I hope to get back to my flask and butties, while out on my long hikes.

Not much has changed for us as we are lucky that we have a bit of land so we are pretty much totally isolated plus i am a miserable git and according to the mrs have been self isolating for 20 odd years anyway my one is coming up for 6yrs old and to be honest i have done no formal training with her out of season for the last 2 yrs.
I feel for folk who have no land in these difficult times and i appreciate how lucky i am.

Enjoyed the blog CC, since I too, work my two dogs together.

I work all the older dogs together. Thats what they will have to do picking up on shoot days. They all have to be steady. All have to walk heel and sit until told to get out. Each dog goes by name when asked. They enjoy it. Seems to add interest to the game.

newf wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:51 am Enjoyed the blog CC, since I too, work my two dogs together.

Well it is really just a bit of fun to fill the long days in isolation. I doubt there will ever be a practical purpose for it in my case. I can't see ever actually hunting the two together. They have two different jobs. They are each specialists really and would not be an asset out trying to do the other's job.

Yes, CC, I see where you are coming from in these specialist roles and personalities. In my case, my lab and springer are not a problem in the competitive sense, so I can utilize them both. As to rough shooting, my lab is instinctively out of the game; he is allowed to hunt out front with the springer but is searching for different scent (carrion).

The lab is typically sauntering out front while springer is actually working. I’ve trained the hunter to the turn whistle while the lab can ignore it. However, both must respond to the stop and recall.

In contrast, when jump shooting ducks, both heel together when stalking and after a kill, turns are taken on retrieves.

newf wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:06 pm Yes, CC, I see where you are coming from in these specialist roles and personalities. In my case, my lab and springer are not a problem in the competitive sense, so I can utilize them both. As to rough shooting, my lab is instinctively out of the game; he is allowed to hunt out front with the springer but is searching for different scent (carrion).

The lab is typically sauntering out front while springer is actually working. I’ve trained the hunter to the turn whistle while the lab can ignore it. However, both must respond to the stop and recall.

In contrast, when jump shooting ducks, both heel together when stalking and after a kill, turns are taken on retrieves.

Many years ago I had a ESS and Lab bitches that I upland hunted (rough shoot) a lot together. They were both very compliant and worked well together. It was interesting to watch them. It was almost always the Springer who first indicated the presence of game by upping her speed and fast concentrated quartering (I would say getting birdy). However, as often as not it was the Lab who would bore straight into the bird and put it up. I use to describe it as the springers nose was improved cylinder but the lab's was full choke.

There probably doesn't need to be a practical purpose for any extra exercises over and above the basics for gundog work, however, doing different things keeps their minds active, strengthens the bonds between you and can make life so much easier in the field even if not obviously relevant.
Mine are busy being untrained as the OG has been taking them out regularly...