Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla ... first impressions

Discuss working your Gundog or tell us about your experiences be it sublime or ridiculous!
Naj
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Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla ... first impressions

Post by Naj »

After nearly 20 years hunting and shooting over GSPs I got my first HWV pup January 2019. Up until getting her I’d never actually had the opportunity of seeing one in the flesh, let alone seeing one out hunting, so I booked a pup from a UK breeder who has had success at trialling them and uses top Hungarian working lines and would imagine she’s pretty typical of the breed. She’s now 18 months old.

So, first impressions after her first year and shooting season? I’d liken her to the Hush Puppy of shooting dogs :lol: because she’s been so comfortable to live with and shoot over. She’s very intuitive and people centred, so easy to build a close bond with, oozing with natural ability and has a super temperament. But it’s a super soft temperament that is unforgiving of clumsy handling and would have been completely squashed by even relatively mild corrections, so not for everybody. She was also very vocal as a pup and I thought this would mean she’d whine when out shooting but it seemed to be a response to her strange environment and quickly faded but she is quite a a talkative pup around the house, but not so when out shooting where she’s been completely mute, except when she found her first cock pheasant runner and skirted around it barking. :lol: She’s since got the knack of picking runners.

And it did take me quite a while to learn how to read her and make adjustments because she was completely different to what I’d been used to with my GSPs. Apart from the soft temperament, her people focussed Velcro stage went on for many months longer than I’ve ever experienced in any other breed. This is essentially down to her being of a less independent nature. For dogs to get out into the country a few hundred yards away from the handler requires them to have developed the Confidence and independence to do so, and sometimes they are too confident and independent :lol:

My GSPs had this by 6 or 7 months of age but it’s taken twice as long for the Viz to reach a similar stage. So there were times in the first few months when I’d once have written her off as pottering for she’d often amble about and was more interested in keeping in touch with me than in heading out into the country. She also had a Lassie (for older members 🤣) behaviour, where She’d keep stopping for me to catch up. Which was quite handy in broken country but has gradually diminished as her confidence grew. But she’s still very good at keeping contact, which, considering I like to get through a hunt with the minimum of Commands, suits me and my style of training just fine.

She has her moments but is a bit of a couch potato in the house and is just happy to hang with you when out in the yard and garden, but out with the gun and she’s always been up for the hunt. She was straight out on gamey ground from when I first got her home at 8 weeks of age and was out looking for game two or three time’s a day right through her first year and shooting season. I follow a bump and chase routine on wild game to develop game finding and pointing and the first point kicked in at 16 weeks, just as it did with my GSPs. By 6 months she could work ground and air scents, was already proficient at working sitting and moving birds and was just about free of serious chase.

However, she was a bit of an enigma because she didn’t have the hard running, slash and burn style of a GSP at that age but clearly had a great nose and a knack of knowing when to use it and step up a gear. I think there are several factors that contribute to this. For starters I used to have the sneaking suspicion that she tended to favour working ground scents over air scents, which always tends to slow a dog. She was also ultra cautious around game and became very creepy and stop-starty. One day I noticed a hare sneaking off a hundred yards upwind and when I saw this replicated it explained her cautious behaviour. But with experience and a growing confidence she gradually learnt better discrimination and this behaviour died out. She still is very cautious around game and, apart from slamming into a point when she happens upon game unexpectedly, whenever she has the opportunity of winding it in timely fashion she will draw on and go into a ‘soft’ point much farther out than the GSPs, which tend to go in up close and personal before going into a hard point a few feet from the bird. I call it a ‘soft‘ point because she’ll hold it until I get within a few yards of her but it’s not rigid as a ramrod point and she’ll keep glancing at me to check on my progress. The only time my GSPs do that is if they’re on an unproductive point. Once I’ve caught up she’ll start walking me in before finally coming on hard point within feet of the bird.

I’ve noticed this more cautious, stand off approach on videos of Vizslas so guess it’s pretty typical. I used to dislike all the creepy creepy stuff, preferring the direct approach to game of the GSP, so it took me a while to get used to it and work out what was happening but, upon reflection, I’m now of the opinion that it’s a more killing method. The GSPs certainly have no hesitation at getting in close to their birds before pointing but on flighty birds, like snipe and grouse, already feeling under pressure from the dog being so close on point, the Sight of me looming in on their horizon is frequently too much for them and they break. That often results in rushed shots at greater range on rapidly disappearing birds. With the Viz’s stand off approach we walk in as one threat and the result has been that birds hold better and if they do flush it’s when I’m much closer for a more considered shot. That’s how I’ve found it.

I don’t rely on command based training in the Traditional sense but concentrate on developing routines and rituals around all the roles my dogs play on a daily basis. As a bit of fun I decided to try as much as possible to use game rather than dummies so didn’t do much by way of dummy training other than some delivery and steadiness games but that was only over a few yards. Apart from a few retrieves when at exercise with my GSP to teach her patience in taking her turn I did no ‘Marking’ training at all. In fact I didn’t want to get her fixated on marking because in my experience they pick this up very quickly, and naturally, when you start shooting birds over them. But I did a lot of retrieving on cold game blinds, gradually extending her confidence on getting out and hunting on longer retrieves. Her attitude to retrieving is markedly better than any of my GSPs and her default position is to have something in her mouth to Carry. She can’t come out of her crate without dragging her fleece out with her and parading it about. :lol: She also has a markedly soft mouth and you don’t get any mouthing or messing about on the pick up. I also did a lot of drop to shot work and must have fired getting on towards 200 shots over her, mainly .22 starter pistols but .410 and 12 bore in the later stages.

She started her shooting career almost by accident. :lol: We were hunting a moor last September and I’d taken my .410 along to get some drops to flush and shot. She was proficient at it by then and had already had a few on snipe that afternoon without any issue so when she had a cracking find and point and remained stationary when a snipe flushed I thought ... what the hell ... and shot it. I was confident that she’d handle the retrieve OK. and after a brief sniff she picked the bird no problem, her first snipe and her first retrieve if warm game. 10 months old.

From there we started hunting in earnest with the twelve bore. I shot a few more snipe over her and then her first cock pheasant, a dead bird which she handled ok. Next a cock bird that ran 25 yards before tucking in but she worked it and picked it fine before realising it was still moving and spat it out before circling and barking at it it. I knocked it on the head and tossed it out and she had no problem at picking it after that. A few more snipe and a couple more pheasants and then I shot her first grouse over her point, which happened to be a hard hit runner that flapped off in front of her and taught her how to handle wounded birds. She handled it well. The photo of her with this grouse, a woodcock and a snipe was taken when she was 12 months old. They were the first grouse and woodcock that she’d ever retrieved and she took them both in her stride. She’d now had every quarry species that she’ll encounter shot over her points. By the end of the season she was working runners like a pro and I’d shot 24 birds over her points and she was still steady to flush, shot and fall, not that I’m particularly bothered about that.

So, first thoughts, I like her. :-D I like a dog that’s easy to live with around the home, trains up quickly and without any hitch and retains that training, and then we go hunting, where my first priority is an effective game finder and she ticks all of those boxes. I’m not so sure the breed would suit anyone more interested in Training and I can’t see her ever quartering like a metronome on gameless ground. But she’d take a lot more handling and retriever training than I’m interested in developing. She’s more like a Labrador in that respect. Head to head she’s faster than my GSPs in an outright sprint but her hunting gait is marginally slower but enough to get out 2-300 yards without slowing you down. I guess that on average my GSP’s natural range is 50-200 yards and they’ll go out to 300 on occasion, whereas the Viz is more like 50-100 yards but she’ll go out to 300 yards on scent. But I’ve never come back from a hunt thinking I’d have done better with a GSP, often the reverse. These last few months she’s matured both mentally and physically and has grown greatly in confidence, independence and range so I’m looking forward to seeing how her hunting develops next season. All in all she’s been a joy.
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munstyman
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Re: Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla ... first impressions

Post by munstyman »

:clap: Great read Naj, Welcome to the `minor' breeds :lol: Always thought your posts were too GSP orientated but they have been mellowing over recent times, so well done the dog for broadening your horizons :dance: :lol:
Your post actually underlines the fact that there is quite distinguishable differences between the breeds ( and with individuals as well as lines within a breed :think: ) both to live with and hunt over. I've found over the years a good hunting dog hunts what ever the breed, its in the style they hunt which either matches the owners needs/preferences or it does not, and moving forward will influence how they see and comment on a breed.
I've said before that in the early days for competition I made my Munster hunt fast and wide like a GSP/GWP just to not be cast aside before I even took off the lead. Out shooting on my own I let her hunt as a Munster should and it quickly became apparent , that the different styles made very little difference to the outcome of the hunting. She always found what was available to be found, and without me pushing her she worked a better partnership and made my shooting `easier' ( She was smart enough to figure out I needed all the help I could get :lol: )
The HWV has been very popular since its introduction and you have given good insight as to why. As always I worry that popularity can be the undoing of a breed :( But in all honesty it is the breed that is probably the best HPR for our current shooting/living environment in this country. ( Although I won't be trading in my Munsters anytime soon, sanity is not my strong point :lol: :lol: )
Springcopse spaniels
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Re: Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla ... first impressions

Post by Springcopse spaniels »

Thanks for sharing, a great read and insight.
I always fancied a smooth coat, having had the company of one many years ago on my first shoot.
But some how got in to spanners 🤷‍♂️
A well schooled dog will open doors, a poor one closes them quickly.
Naj
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Re: Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla ... first impressions

Post by Naj »

Thanks. :-D I love the pace, style and determination of GSPs and have shot a lot of stuff over them over the years but have often felt that they’ve been almost too much dog for some of my ground, and I’ve got a fair bit of it to go at. I felt the same about springers and that’s how I ended up with cockers. :lol: But I’ve come to love the more cooperative and easy going nature of the Viz and she’s formed a tight hunting partnership with me which, as you say MunstyM, May be different to that of the GSPs/GWPs but is equally as productive. I share your concerns about the influence of training for competition, which then spills over into the norm. I see videos of HPRs being cast off and racing away like wide ranging spaniels with no room for a decent bite forward into new ground because the dog is being turned before it’s gone much over 30-40 yards, and others of dogs being pulled off of scent and moving birds, presumably because they might find something and bugger up the handler’s perfect ground treatment :lol:, and can only wonder. Perhaps aim getting old. :lol:

Naj
ips
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Re: Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla ... first impressions

Post by ips »

Good read.
PS
I feel honoured and somewhat smug that i am the only forumite to have met pup 😁👍

PPS
Nearly 12 mth ago, can you believe that 🤪
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.
Naj
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Re: Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla ... first impressions

Post by Naj »

ips wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 4:27 pm Good read.
PS
I feel honoured and somewhat smug that i am the only forumite to have met pup 😁👍

PPS
Nearly 12 mth ago, can you believe that 🤪
You’d not recognise her now, she’s bigger than Sally. 🤣 But she’s just a, much loved, dog.
Lloyd90
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Re: Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla ... first impressions

Post by Lloyd90 »

I like the sound and look of them HWV, Jason Atkinson (Dakota Gundogs) on FB often post's videos of his hunting and flushing, he seems to have big open spaces with lots of light cover, northern rabbit land by looks of it.

What ground do you hunt yours on NAJ? I'd love to have a day hunting over a decent HPR one day ... I'd like to think one day I'd have a decent one, then I think I have to get the useless dogs I've already got decent lol!

There's loads of nice breeds out there it's a shame they don't get worked more, good to see them used in the right work :)
Naj
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Re: Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla ... first impressions

Post by Naj »

Lloyd90 wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 10:17 pm I like the sound and look of them HWV, Jason Atkinson (Dakota Gundogs) on FB often post's videos of his hunting and flushing, he seems to have big open spaces with lots of light cover, northern rabbit land by looks of it.

What ground do you hunt yours on NAJ? I'd love to have a day hunting over a decent HPR one day ... I'd like to think one day I'd have a decent one, then I think I have to get the useless dogs I've already got decent lol!

There's loads of nice breeds out there it's a shame they don't get worked more, good to see them used in the right work :)
I hunt rough pasture, white grass, rushes and moorland, plus a bit of duck and goose flighting. It’s all fairly open ground holding sparse densities of game so ideal for HPRs. Not sure if mine would qualify as decent dogs but they sure as hell know how to work with me to produce game for the gun and that’s all I’m interested in these days. :lol:

Naj
newf
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Re: Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla ... first impressions

Post by newf »

Naj, yes, an enjoyable read of how you have developed this new pup. Since I hunt, I would find what you are doing naturally interesting and educational. I could see, one day perhaps, I may get one of the pointing breeds, but I would prefer whatever the dog, the water attitude would be good for the little bit of duck hunting I also do.

As to this ‘soft’ point you describe, I can see it as being beneficial in real hunts. It seems to demonstrate a better working relationship that should bring higher success in actually bagging game.

So this ground treatment with your dogs is basically instinctive with no real input from you ?
trekmoor
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Re: Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla ... first impressions

Post by trekmoor »

Naj, that was a good read and I found myself nodding in agreement when you described your dog's attitude to training and general style of work. I found much the same when I trained "Rosie" my neighbours Vizsla (smoothcoated) a few years back.

Rosie could outrun any GSP …..if and when she wanted to ! She was superb at jumping too ...long jump or high jump and she did it with no training or even encouragement ! That being said she was also a lazy cow ! I know she could have won field trials ....but only if she'd wanted to "on the day !" She'd have been just as likely to amble about doing nothing much at all .....until she encountered scent and then she'd have began to really hunt !

She loved water and swam anywhere, anytime for as far as i would permit. An odd combination of personal quirks made her an easy candidate for a field trial win but also an easy candidate for giving me a big red face if she didn't think there was any game for miles around !

I think the breeds (vizsla and wire haired vizsla) are very much alike in temperament . They suit folk who either do next to no training at all or folk who are good enough at dog training not to often need to resort to physically correcting a dog.

I prefer a brittany …I like their "bad attitude !" :lol: but I do like the vizzies.

Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
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