Modern training methods

[Nickheref]

As it is quiet I thought I might see what people think, there are a lot of "how to train" gundog videos on youtube but much of it to me appears to be training for trainings sake and have little to do with practical gundog work or even trialling but I suspect teaching the dog something in a certain way either because you can or because the trainer believes or expects the dogs have little natural ability or desire to work.

Here is how to teach a dog to pick up cold game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kNbB9ycFDA

Even my poor retrievers over the years have been keener on game rather than dummies and I am sure many out there have resorted in giving a dog cold game rather than a dummy at some point to encourage it to carry.

All of the better dogs have already picked cold game by six months old, either by design or often inadvertently by them finding something dead when on exercise and bringing it to me.

I am not sure I really see why you would go through all this when you could just see if the dog wanted to retrieve it by putting it out as an easy retrieve. If the dog isn't interested then you have a problem but I would not be overly keen on a young dog who didn't want to carry up a partridge, it might find a cock pheasant a bit big if the dog is very small. I would expect a youngster to be rather more interested in the partridge than a treat!

How do other people introduce cold game?

[newf]

Hi Nick! I have to say, it was one of the better clicker training retrieves I’ve seen. It was practical and a lot was accomplished if that was one training session. My one criticism would be that the session was too long.

Personally, I’ve trained my dogs basically by tossing cold game out for simple retrieves. However, I also do a lot of background work of holding and pickup of odd items too, so, I believe it helps in the leap to cold game.

As to clicker training, I do dabble in that area too alongside the more instinctive approach as opportunities arise both positive and negative. I find clicker training to be great at teaching fine things with detail or nuance, especially in areas which have no practical benefit to the dog. Things like fine tuning heel position, tricks or getting a dog interested and comfortable with unusual sounds or things, like riding in a sled or on a quad.

My only beef with modern training is “throwing out the baby with the bath water”: in other words, the ideology that safe, contingent and effective punishment is cruel and unnecessary. I’ll be blunt, stupid thinking in my book.

[WGD]

As with all things dogs, each to their own. But jeepers that's complicated.

I'm a lot less sophisticated.... 12 weeks or so once a few balls have come to hand, I chuck a partridge or other small game bird. I look for said dog to pick it up, I fully expect a "this is better than a ball" dance and don't get uptight about that. I get the bird back with some encouragement.

Thereafter they'll get the odd retrieve of whatever I have shot that may be suitable, and when they're ready they go shooting and pick up whatever's been shot. Never had a problem and never had to make it a particularly special effort, I've had harder work getting youngsters to pick canvas than game and truth be told I'm not that keen on pups that aren't keen retrievers.

[Nickheref]

As with all things dogs, each to their own. But jeepers that's complicated.

I'm a lot less sophisticated.... 12 weeks or so once a few balls have come to hand, I chuck a partridge or other small game bird. I look for said dog to pick it up, I fully expect a "this is better than a ball" dance and don't get uptight about that. I get the bird back with some encouragement.

Thereafter they'll get the odd retrieve of whatever I have shot that may be suitable, and when they're ready they go shooting and pick up whatever's been shot. Never had a problem and never had to make it a particularly special effort, I've had harder work getting youngsters to pick canvas than game and truth be told I'm not that keen on pups that aren't keen retrievers.

That is pretty much my method and I suspect that dogs that don't do it like that would be a problem whatever method was used. To me the more complicated you make it the more that can go wrong.

I like the "this is better than a ball dance", I gave my youngsters a snipe to retrieve as little pups and they thought it was the best moment of their short lives.

[ips]

I trained on canvas dummy and the plastic sausage type bright orange jobs, then one day i shot a pheasant on the syndicate we started beating on and she retrieved it to hand with great enthusiasm. I missed out the cold game bit for no specific reason that I can recall..... I am not advocating the above muddle along method just saying

[PRH]

I've not come across that problem. Canvas, feathered dummies, balls, slippers, water bottles, partridge...my dogs have been quite happy picking up what has been asked. The spanner was a bit hesitant when younger, but with a bit of encouragement and making it a lot of fun she got the hang of it.

[Judy]

Dog seems much keener on food than on either the Partridge or the retrieve, it bothers me slightly that this method would hide any shortcomings in the dog's natural ability. Newf, she has certainly skipped some steps in her video, its not all one session for sure.

Pretty much all my dogs have found and brought me dead pigeons (long before I learned that pigeons are the last thing a dog wants to pick because of all those loose feathers), they seem to have grasped retrieving and bringing Mummy stuff long before we get into formal training! The formal training is simply putting the icing on the cake already provided in the genes.

Ips, I used to faff around with cold game training often finding it more trouble than it was worth, these days I tend to take them to the shoot and let them learn from their elders and betters. Their natural instincts are pretty good when it comes to game.

[ips]

Ips, I used to faff around with cold game training often finding it more trouble than it was worth, these days I tend to take them to the shoot and let them learn from their elders and betters. Their natural instincts are pretty good when it comes to game.

Judy
I can't say that it was a conscious decision on my part to skip the cold game it was mainly because I have always been a learn on the job kind of bloke and assumed the same could be done with dog training

[Nickheref]

Dog seems much keener on food than on either the Partridge or the retrieve, it bothers me slightly that this method would hide any shortcomings in the dog's natural ability.

That's my worry, before long you find that all dogs need careful training before they pick up or carry never mind hunt! Having said that she mentions being mugged which I think meant the dog was keen on it, so I suspect the dog was taught not to pick it up before being taught to pick it up and that might make an interesting video.

[munstyman]

Well I thought as a novice handler/trainer she has a good technique. Even though the clicker is not my thing, her timing was very good and sequencing was well paced. In her own words doing it her way because it works for her and the dog, gets brownie points from me just for that
I did notice that on the second touch of the partridge the dog was already mouthing, which to me indicates the only problem was the dogs understanding of what it was `allowed' to pick up. So a very long winded approach to a simple problem, strike that, hiccup.
The only retrieving issues I've had with my dogs involve when they have discovered how much more fun hunting is Because of this those first four weeks of puppy games I try to get as much variety of items in their mouths including cold game ( legs and wings ).