which springer or cocker

[dalrulzion]

After years of having labradors working them and breeding them i have decided in the new year to get a spaniel.. ...... still not 100% sure weather to get a cocker or springer .. .. whats everyone's thoughts on both breeds and pros and cons ?

[Judy]

Depends on what you do with your dogs! Wildfowling, stick with Labs. Beating or rough shooting, either breed, picking up maybe Springers, depending on how hard your ground is - how much serious cover, long water retrieves, fast running rivers. Having said that I go picking up with my Cockers, they are fine. I have, only once, picked up on a 1000 bird day with a single Cocker, my other dogs were in season. She coped just fine although the following day she was a bit tired.

Springers have a reputation as being easier to train, I haven't had one so can't comment but what I can say is Cockers are very much easier to train than Flatcoats. At the end of the day it's pretty much whichever one you fancy, if you really like a breed you'll do better with it whatever it's shortcoming.

[dalrulzion]

I do alot of rough shooting and picking up the rough shooting ground can go from quite thick stuff to open hill ground .. picking up is mostly from fields wooded areas etc with the odd pond or loch retriever I do like cookers and springers can't save just now I favor one more than the other

[Naj]

I think Judy sums it up nicely. I’ve trained and shot over both breeds extensively. I must have shot a few thousand rabbits, plus pheasant and wildfowl, over cockers on soft cover like white grass, rushes, rough pasture, scrub moorland and gorse, and think their finicky, naturally close hunting style suits this type of ground, and quarry, which is why I switched to them from springers. There was also plenty of rabbit scent to motivate them, which helped, although modern strains are more driven than they used to be. But if I wanted a spaniel to tackle heavier cover like bramble on a regular basis I’d choose a springer. Smaller Cockers can handle heavier cover but it can knock hell out of them compared with a big springer, plus extra leg length is always an advantage when picking birds out of cover or even hunting longer stuff like rank heather.

When I started shooting in the 70s cockers were in an abysmal state with poor hunting and mouth problems endemic in the breed and springers were the go-to roughshooting dog but that has now been reversed, and admittedly cockers have improved enormously since the 70s. Cockers seem to be all the rage at the moment but I’d guess that there are a lot of cocker owners who’d probably be better served by a springer.

I now prefer to shoot over HPRs!

[dalrulzion]

thanks for replying iv heard a lot cockers harder to train or won't go in to cover then you talk to someone else and its the opposite I have been lucky enough to watch setters recently beautiful dogs greatvtovsee them working

[Naj]

Don’t get me wrong, I loved shooting over cockers and did so for nearly twenty years. There have been a lot of myths grown up around them but I didn’t think they were particularly hard to train providing that you understood their temperament and the fact that they’re not just small springers. I was shooting over mine by the time they were 14 months old and that’s all we did and they never looked back. They’d go in the thickest of cover if there was something to find but they tackle cover differently to springers. They’re fun dogs to be around.

[Nickheref]

I am probably a bit biased but if I just had one dog for everything it would be a springer dog. I find on the whole and everything is a generalisation, a springer dog will ask what you want and then tell you it can do it. However I would pick my bloodlines carefully and try and find someone who does what you do as the type of dog they have will probably suit you. Almost any dog will enter cover if there are birds everywhere but when rough shooting you need a dog who really wants to find game not just run on scent.

[dalrulzion]

I am probably a bit biased but if I just had one dog for everything it would be a springer dog. I find on the whole and everything is a generalisation, a springer dog will ask what you want and then tell you it can do it. However I would pick my bloodlines carefully and try and find someone who does what you do as the type of dog they have will probably suit you. Almost any dog will enter cover if there are birds everywhere but when rough shooting you need a dog who really wants to find game not just run on scent.

....

I have been looking at pedigrees of both
cockers an springers and trying to do a bit homework on
them problem is unless its got an award in a trial there's not much out there about mr Smith who does a bit beating or rough shooting dog and on the subject of pedigrees both spaniels and labs the pedigree pool is getting smaller and smaller these days

[Nickheref]

I would listen to this if you have time, particularly the sections on breeding, trialling and foot or air scent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU17Jrv ... bmRvZ3M%3D

I have long enjoyed watching Jeremy Organ's dogs hunt because they do just that! They can hunt, not just be guided from side to side irrespective of the wind, like him my mentor started with hounds and learnt watching the hounds hunt, I also knew Ian Bateson (I haven't seen him for some years) and he was a man of few words but he had some very good hunting dogs. My current dogs go back to some of Jeremy Organs' and Mike Smith's who in turn go back to some of Bateson's.

[dalrulzion]

I would listen to this if you have time, particularly the sections on breeding, trialling and foot or air scent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU17Jrv ... bmRvZ3M%3D

I have long enjoyed watching Jeremy Organ's dogs hunt because they do just that! They can hunt, not just be guided from side to side irrespective of the wind, like him my mentor started with hounds and learnt watching the hounds hunt, I also knew Ian Bateson (I haven't seen him for some years) and he was a man of few words but he had some very good hunting dogs. My current dogs go back to some of Jeremy Organs' and Mike Smith's who in turn go back to some of Bateson's.

..

I watched this last nite very interesting as well as on about breeding another bit that really caught my attention was when Jeremy was on about quartering in a trial now adays ... compared to when he started and quartering looked more out of control due to dogs using there natural ability and the use of both air scent and ground scent .... compared to todays window wipers type trialing .....


the guy who interviewed Jeremy.... Charlie Thorburn has many you tube videos of springers cockers labs all ages some videos where things don't go to plan due to dogs being dogs he owns mordor gundogs well worth a watch too