Flatcoats and cancer

[Judy]

I vaccinate mine yearly, dose with wormers at least twice a year more if they look like they need it, deflea as necessary and feed kibble. Still the buggers live into double figures.

[Pink Gundog]

I vaccinate mine yearly, dose with wormers at least twice a year more if they look like they need it, deflea as necessary and feed kibble. Still the buggers live into double figures.

Isnt that fabulous . Lets hope it remains like that and you never have to suffer like some of us have. Then you may just have a second thought about it. Its as the saying goes if it aint broke dont fix it, however once it has broke to rack your brain wondering why!! Well at least folk like me do

[Ghilliegumdrop]

Society as a whole is becoming too hygenic......................when we were kids we played in the dirt, didn't wash [half the time] before eating, we let the dog lick our face, even if it hadn't been wormed, and we played with kids that had infectious diseases like measles, mumps and chicken pox etc. Nowadays things are scrubbed to within an inch of their life and, guess what, because children are not allowed to go within spitting distance of another child that's got an infectious disease they get no immunity to anything Now we have all these weird viruses and things going on most of which Doctors have no cure for Bring back dirt I say and lets develope a bit of immunity again

Should this be in the rant section

[patricia t]

As I have a half-flattie (cross lab), I should cut by housework down by half - just in case, and to keep the place sufficiently mucky to boost his immune system. Golden retrievers came out of FCRs only about a 100 years ago or so, didnn't they, so suppose would share the same genetic dispositions for a while.

[vicky payne]

The fault is in the breeding; yes vaccines, drugs, stress, hygeine, food additives etc may trigger the cancer but the underlying susceptability is in the breeding. Before everyone jumps into 'inbreeding, how evil' It may have got into certain breeds because of diseases! Imagine if there 1000 flatcoats in the days before vaccines and distemper came through and killed 80% of them. The remaining 200 flatcoats may have had a naural genetic immunity; this is how survival of the fittest works. Imagine these 200 all had one recessive copy of a gene which allowed them to better avoid distemper. But imagine that if they have two copies it leaves them succesptible to cancer. All your 200remaining dogs are dD for distemper proof gene but when you breed them, even if you breed as widely as possible 25% of pups are dd (cancer prone) and 25% are DD( distemper prone).
If this sounds far fetched look at sickle cell anaemia; a mild form protects agains malaria, the full form kills you.

The FCR gets a little unfairly tarred as the cancer dog! Yes it has a higher rate of cancer but the very pro-activeness of it's lovers means this fact is widely known. It is less well know that Goldies have a similarly high incidence. Back to the OP, I'm not sure a Toller was the best choice......they are struggling with their own genetic immune system problems at the moment.

[bluebell]

Sorry I didnt mean to imply that FCR cancer was diectly linked to environmental factors, just that some cancers may be.

Vicky I agree that the FCR people are trying very hard to sort it out and not sweeping it under the carpet unlike some breeds and as such they should be commended.

[Ulla R]

Our database (Koiranetti) gives that 41% of FCR dies in cancer (141 of 344 reported). We have this system that owners can report to the Finnish Kennel Club the deaths and reasons. Let's compare to other gundog breeds: labrador 12% (111/918), golden 20% (209/1043), cocker 16,5% (108/652) and springer 13,4% (36/291). It is very worrying high rate of cancer in flat coats.

[vicky payne]

Thanks for that data Ulla R. It is worrying and the FCR people know that. What is not clear is how they can improve it.

[Ulla R]

Crossbreed to golden or labrador?

[Hepe]

Crossbreed to golden or labrador?

In my dream world they would use the cancer problem in Flats to find the cancer gene and in the end provide huge progress in the fight against both canine and human cancer.