Gundog Training Forum

Naj wrote: ↑Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:34 am I was presuming you've done a fair bit of quartering/hunting in cover with a spaniel of this age but now I'm not so sure. You say he's a peg dog, does he retrieve birds out of cover or doesn't he get the chance?

Naj

Naj, he's primary role is as a peg dog, bit of an experiment, my brother and I brought very well bred ESS (different lines) each and really focused on steadying them up for the peg. Our syndicate shoot is largely woodland or plough, backing on to woods, so ideal for a spaniel. As it was he's-first season I didn't send him for runners, although he did pick heavily pricked birds.
Throughout his on going training, I've quartered him. I use two commands "lost" - looking for a shot bird, "seek" pushing birds up with drop to shot or flush. He is definitely more calm and focused on the lost hunt than the seek hunt. He's a big lad at 22kg's and covers a log of ground, 6/8 paces and he's out of shot range, so you have to stay on top of him.
The experiment has worked, as a peg dog he is first class, he came away with me on a couple of fairly big days, had birds full flapping away just feet from him and watched as the picking up dogs collected from the end of his nose during the drives, 100% non slip.
I'm currently contemplating another dog for a summer project, not sure which way to go yet!

So does he normally hunt the same when you're quartering him? It sounded as if it had come as a revelation to you. Does he do anything different to other spaniels you see when he's hunting?

Naj

He has two different gears, when hunting for lost (shot) birds he is a lot more measured, I should add, if the bird has fallen into heavy cover and I don't have a clear line a will walk back and hunt/quarter him through the cover.
The worry I have is when he is hunting/quartering to flush he throws caution to the wind and it's only a matter of time until he really hurts himself.
Yes I've quicker and more stylish dogs hunt, they just seemed to do it more ...... intelligently? Does this come with experience?
An example of Numbnuts - 6mx6m thick bramble, no holes what so ever, 3 attempts to get into it and bouncing off, he jumps 3 ft off the ground and enters head first and wriggles down. Took me and another gun using our sticks to create a hole to get him out!

A couple of questions one for you one for the forum in general

1 Is he like this when asked to hunt on any ground or does he hunt like this only on areas where there is or likely to be a lot of scent ie on a driven shoot?
2 Would forum members in general regard a springer dog as big at about 48lbs?

My springers have made me wince at times when hitting cover but it was nothing out of the ordinary. I'd get an experienced springer trainer to have a look. It's hard to give an opinion of a dog you can't see.

Naj

My two cockers Charlie and Billy "make their own holes" when they encounter really thick, prickly cover. Billy is the size of a male springer and he does the cover bashing as if it wasn't there yet he seldom gets cuts on his face or ears. Charlie is not quite as good at cover bashing as his sire Billy is , he weighs at least 10 lbs. less and is considerably smaller but Charlie often gets cuts to his nose, his tongue , his face and his ears.

I am uncertain about my springer "Edge" as a cover basher. He looks for holes to enter by at present but he has never had the experiences of rabbits among the cover my two cockers had while they were young. Edge fairly often gets cuts on his face, nose and tongue however. I just accept it as being a spaniel "thing."

Wullie

Nickheref wrote: ↑Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:24 am A couple of questions one for you one for the forum in general

1 Is he like this when asked to hunt on any ground or does he hunt like this only on areas where there is or likely to be a lot of scent ie on a driven shoot?
2 Would forum members in general regard a springer dog as big at about 48lbs?

A1' he's ever the optimist, if there's cover and he's not looking for a retrieve he's like this. On a plying field he is rangy and lopes about pulling to any cover.
Re size, my brothers dog is slightly older and 17kgs and much faster but will look for holes in cover.

Just let them go for it and don't worry, they might get ripped but there is little that you can do.

If they are getting hurt from the rips (say going in hard cover a couple of times a week so the cuts don't heal) then they will moderate their behavior.

Up here we don't have a great deal of proper bramble so my young cockers haven't really seen much of it. At Christmas i went home and did about 6 days over 10 in pretty nasty stuff and they loved it. Cut to pieces and covered in blood by the end of the first drive. Their work didn't slow down but if you were doing that day in day out i'm sure they would wise up.

The more you worry the worse it seems to be.

Dan

Out walking the pup this morning, I came across ( or heard along way off ) some dog walkers who's dogs were being hyped up by their owners. The excited dogs were clearly no longer in control of their behaviour, and this subject popped into my head. My big project for this pup was to teach `calmness' and self control from the outset, its coming along well by the way, but has got me thinking.
We know scent puts good hunting dogs up a gear, and in relationship with self preservation I wonder if those dogs that do themselves more damage are less in control of the situation than those that can and do handle the hunt in a more rounded and considered way? Is it a case of not recognising the difference between over excitement and hunting drive?

No.

you can squash drive but you can't put in more drive than is inherently already there.