Set me off on the right path please

Discuss any aspect of training you have, ask questions, share tips and advice for any breed of gundog.
Polmaise
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by Polmaise »

Crosshair wrote: I can't think of a way of replicating that in training or a way of communicating the dogs 'why' it's important not to keep pestering Hazel when she's getting all the fun, or why i'm clearly looking for something over 'here' but they must stay looking for something else over 'there' :D
Could be 'Honouring' the other dog?...
Picking up', and beating' and rough shooting' and flanking', and dogging in', and everything else you do', requires a 'jack of all trades'?..which they are all well capable of doing!..and they know the difference! (imo) ;) ...It alway's comes back to basics....Train one individual ,individually, then train them together as individuals, then they are a team'! of individuals ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugp-Mc3bhxM
Crosshair
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by Crosshair »

Another brill vid Robert, thanks. Some nice terrain there both from a shooting and picking up POV.
Ok, so is another way of putting it that the 'standard' of the 'pack' will always revert to the quality of it's worst member :think:
So until I 'polish' Fern, Bracken and to a certain extent Holly too, then no matter how hard I work on Hazel, she'll always revert to type :brickwall:
Rascal
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by Rascal »

Try it but don't let the dog see the blind first.. ! ;)
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Crosshair
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by Crosshair »

Yep, you're dead right. Need to go back one step further and get that stop whistle back 100% first though.
I was picking up again today, and managed to work the last two drives in such a way that I could leave all the other's in the car, work Hazel 1 on 1 during the drive, then return to the car before carrying out the sweep (although with hindsight, I prob should have then put Hazel away :think: )
At one point, a cock bird runner crashed in some 90-100 yards away by a really distinctive tree. I was far enough back to be able to play about without distracting the guns or the birds, so I lined her up and sent her back. She got perhaps 40 yards, travelling fairly fast and fairly straight when an unshot cock glided over her head and planed into another hedge to the left of a straw barn (the original pricked bird was to the right of the straw barn). So, she started off in the direction of the unshot bird, I blew the stop whistle and she stopped and looked back. I paused, gave a nice clear "RIGHT" with a big hand signal and she set off right then sneakily hunted around in an arc to the left towards the unshot bird. So, I blew again and she didn't stop. So I blew again and by now she'd reached the edge and this time she stopped. I let her think for a minute then cast her off right again. This time she went all the way across to within 10m of the tree and probably within 6m of being able to wind the shot bird. I stopped her again and tried to push her back. At this point a bird was shot back at the line which was to the right of her current position. She stopped what she was doing and marked it.
So now, she knows of one cock bird 50m to her left (the unshot one and you could say the first diversion), she knows of a dead bird to her right (the second diversion!!) and I want her to go just another ten yards straight back so she can wind the runner. Unfortunately, I couldn't get her back. She'd go right, i''d stop her and 'back' her so then she'd go left!!! I realised I was confusing her so just recalled her at this point but I walked her over there at the end of the drive and picked it instantly!
Am I expecting too much???
Rascal
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by Rascal »

No I don't think you are but you do need to train for it and a few five minutes several times a day while you are out keepering should see an improvement fairly quickly..Try and make the stop whistle a positive thing for her though by stopping her and throwing a seen, or a split retrieve and stopping then directing her on to a short blind.

You could set that scenario from the vid in a couple of minutes so she learns that by trusting you she gets a reward following her own initiative gets her no reward.....

Rascal
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Crosshair
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by Crosshair »

Ok, i'm not 'out and about' tomorrow so i'll see if I can try it out. I might even film it :lol:
Rascal
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by Rascal »

I'll look forward to seeing it.... :-D

Rascal
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Crosshair
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by Crosshair »

Ok, so here goes. Be gentle :D

For those that didn't catch it, this is the video that Rascal posted of the Diversion Blind:
http://youtu.be/42UnIqUqyWE
And this is my attempt: (As you can see from the tracks in the dew, the blind is already out there)
http://youtu.be/erPUGRjdrnE
I nearly burst out laughing when filming it this morning and my starting pistol wouldn't go off either (although I managed not to look down the barrell!) :brickwall: :-D :-D :lol: :lol:

Edited to add that i've just watched it back and didn't realise the little monster was not sitting properly the whole time I was putting out the diversion!!! I was too busy cursing the stupid gun :lol: :lol:
Rascal
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by Rascal »

Don’t you mock them yanks again...................... :lol:

She’s not steady enough as you know and hardly surprising given the amount of work she does and like a lot of working dogs has learnt that by following her nose or initiative gets her a reward despite you. If you are not careful you can just become a form of transport between drives and it depends what you want from her too? :? It is hard to maintain focus from a dog when you work them several times a week but by being pedantic about it now will pay dividends.

I think if you put your thinking cap on and decide which areas you want to improve maybe the stop and handling skills over the next few weeks you’d improve her no end. As I said do little bits during the day when you are out and about keepering or even on shoots... Maybe at the end of a drive for a couple of drives get her out and just concentrate on handling skills and then pop her back in the car and sweep with the others for now.

And I’d say it’s a bloody good job you pistol failed coz she looked like she was on the verge of running in and sat down again when the banging stopped and the clicking started..... :lol:

Your line up drills need work to she needs to be following your where your feet are pointing not you trying to hold her head in the right direction...

It’s a useful exercise coz it gets them to ignore what they’ve seen and trust your handling and when you did get her focus, you pushed her back onto that blind well. :-D

Try some of the pattern blinds in the Training reference section because very quickly you can get a dog switched on to going where your feet are pointing, you can almost get them to dance with you....The area you were training in for that vid would be perfect for those.

She’s grown into a cracking looking dog BTW........ :-D

Rascal

Wots thanking her lucky stars no-one was pointing a camera at her this morning.... :roll: :lol:
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Crosshair
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by Crosshair »

Lol! Thanks Rascal, appreciate your input.
I did say I would film it exactly as it happened :lol:
I honestly don't think she would have run in though :think:
I'll get thinking- get reading and get doing :)
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