Line Breeding

[Teddy]

" Culling is the key " can't believe I'm reading that in this day and age. There is a pet market out there for all your rejects! IMO It would be better not to inbreed from the start.

[Hales Smut]

In the wild inbreeding is very common. In a pack of Lions the leading male sires his daughters and probably even grand daughters. When a young mal gets more powerfull and takes over the pack he kills all the cubs and the same story begins. If he is a son of the older male, which isn't inpossible, he probably also sires his sisters, ....... The weak ones get killed, because nature has no sentiments.

The Bridevalley , Sprucehill lines probably were the last strong linebred spaniels. I hava a pedigree here of a dog who has about 7 times Lismore belle in his pedigree. This dog was the litter brother to Bridevalley Nell, the mother of Hothead. I just have pups here very closely bred to an extremely potent dog who was bred very close in the Bridevalley lines. They are about a weel old, so wait and see. Both sire and granddam on the mothers side are out of the same sire. Maybe the 2 best spaniels we have.

The Monalue lines, indeed ,are linebred in a certain way. I have a few of them here. I have the sister to the dog that went to France and had/have a few half sisters from her.
I try to keep that line going.

What I mean is that it's a pitty that there is no other breeder in the UK that strongly linebreeds.

[Hepe]

The problem is that the result of the inbreeding arent culled or die cos they can't keep up in a wild pack - they get sold! Sold to puppy buyers like me. That is a problem for me if not to you.

Helene

[Hales Smut]

That depends on the man/women who sells you the pup. My pups go with a simple guarantee. If they get unuseable for shooting at young age due to a health problem, they get a new pup for free. I don't guarantee certain values in hips or whatever. Simple : if the dog can't work do to a health problem = new pup. If a dog starts walking difficult at 9 or 10 years old, he's simply used, if that happens to a 2/3 year old dog there's a problem.

[beth.james]

I'm sorry but if someone was selling me a pup with an offer a new pup if the first one was unable to work at a young age due to health problems, I'd be very concerned as to why the seller felt the need to offer that sort of guarantee....

[Judy]

That's fine if you are able to treat dogs like farm stock, moving them on or discarding them when they don't come up to expectations but most of us buy our pups carefully and expect to have them for life as in 10 or more years. I personally would find it deeply upsetting to have to put a young dog down for avoidable structural defects. Equally I don't think I would pay out large sums of money to have faults corrected, luckily I haven't ever had to make that decision. I think the World has moved on from the try a mating and cull anything which doesn't come up to scratch methods.

Wild animals have a choice as to whom they mate, I suspect they are rather better than we are at choosing compatible partners, we choose for the dog and I often hear of forced matings where the bitch wants nothing to do with a particular dog, maybe they know better than us?

[Hepe]

That depends on the man/women who sells you the pup. My pups go with a simple guarantee. If they get unuseable for shooting at young age due to a health problem, they get a new pup for free. I don't guarantee certain values in hips or whatever. Simple : if the dog can't work do to a health problem = new pup. If a dog starts walking difficult at 9 or 10 years old, he's simply used, if that happens to a 2/3 year old dog there's a problem.

That is actually a fair deal. Like Judy I'm not sure i would be willing to 'take the risk' but i can imagine others are.

Helene

[Hales Smut]

Most of us breed a litter of pups with the idea that it will be great. It doesn't come out that way all the time. The best guarantee I ever got in the UK was nothing. More "I got your money and you have the dog and if he's bad it's a pitty". When you breed from dogs which have not been (health)tested for generations you just don't know what will apear. What better can you do then offering a new pup if something goes wrong? I once bought, in the UK, an adult dog for breeding and he turned out to have Retinal Dysplasia = useless. I would have hoped to get a new dog from the man at a reduced price, but I am still waiting. I linebreed along Monalue and Bridevalley/Sprucehill lines in the hope ever getting a consistently producing line of spaniels. A line of dogs where the quality of all the pups in the litter is above the average. Will I succeed???? I try at least. That's what linebreeding is about = getting a line of dogs that produce consistent.

[beth.james]

I apologise Hales Smut, I assumed your lines would be health tested...

[Judy]

Yes it is very fair and I agree with what you say regarding not knowing what will be produced health-wise.

Sorry you had a bad experience with a dog bought from the UK and agree some return on your money would have been nice, not all UK breeders are that bad! it's a pity money is the be all and end all for some people.

I agree with the principles of line breeding, it is the only way to 'fix' a type, the thing that bugs me is the continuing very close breeding some people indulge in. It can't be good for a breed when someone breeds closely, has success with that dog then all and sundry use him, the breed immediately hits a bottleneck which, in a numerically small breed, can be disastrous.