steadiness to game/drop

[trekmoor]

I've got a feeling you are badly confusing your own dog but obviously can't say for certain since I can't see what's going on. If you want your dog to be cautious as it scents game the game has to be free to fly away - no correction from you should be given. The dogs "correction" is the one it gives to itself ..... it made the birds that fascinated it fly off. If you give the "correction" in the form of a sit or a drop at this stage of the training you could very easily make your own dog think it is not supposed to POINT game. You think the dog is being corrected for being unsteady , but at this stage of training, the dog may think it is being corrected for pointing on birds. Let the dog "correct" itself. It will begin to point birds from further away and become more cautious as it approaches game it has scented.

Des has so far not responded to this post but one of his favourite sayings is , " Do not correct a dog in the presence of game." A sit to flush can be added at a later stage.

Wullie

[liftboy1]

bill you could have hit the nail on the head, i am dropping him far too quick, so tell me, letting a pigeon fly around him, whilst sitting will that warp him?

[Shep]

With setters I've never known anyone have to teach one to point - they will do it naturally some at 6 weeks old - some not till 2 years. Personally I would stop getting het up about it and leave the dog to work this out for itself. Some, mine included have never pointed planted birds, I think they are saying - I'm not pointing out where that one is because you already know where it is - you bloomin put it there!! You really can't fool them.


Could you arrange a 1 to 1 with a good HPR trainer in your area?

[trekmoor]

No it probably won't warp him but it won't teach him to point and hold that point either. Move heaven and earth and take your dog to game ....... but not at this time of year when the birds have chicks. Hunt him onto game and keep on hunting him , he'll probably teach himself to point then "all" you have to do is quietly and non excitably encourage him to hold that point until you command him to make the flush.

If your dog will scent point pigeons in a cage then it will point game ........ if he gets enough work on game and probably several good chases ! Every pointing dog I've ever owned chased birds but since birds can fly they didn't catch them. Once I'd read the signs that the dogs chases were becoming shorter or less enthusiastic then I began calling it back to me and then I began to put in the previously taught stop whistle because then I had much more chance of the dog listening to me ! Gradually I began to blow stop without letting the dog chase so far first and gradually I gained more and more control of the chase situation.
Since the dog was not pointing when I whistled it (corrected it) it did not associate the actual point with any kind of correction. Only the chase was corrected.

Wullie

[t jack]

With setters I've never known anyone have to teach one to point - they will do it naturally some at 6 weeks old - some not till 2 years. Personally I would stop getting het up about it and leave the dog to work this out for itself. Some, mine included have never pointed planted birds, I think they are saying - I'm not pointing out where that one is because you already know where it is - you bloomin put it there!! You really can't fool them.


Could you arrange a 1 to 1 with a good HPR trainer in your area?

Very true, mine won't point planted birds

[trekmoor]

On the subject of planted birds ........ if they were not in a cage my Brittany used to move in , peg and retrieve them. If they were in a cage she'd position herself on top of the cage and pee on the poor birds ! She detected human scent on the birds and on the cage and showed her scorn in this way. Yet that same bitch was a very good , trial winning HPR. When she was young she'd chase every bird she found right off the fields ! I used to "have a Hamlet moment" ......... I'd fish out a cigar, light it and smoke it while waiting for her to return !

She was a cracker of a bitch ....... I'd have her back again in a moment ...... she was one of my all time favourite dogs.

Wullie

[Jangles]

Liftboy.... have a look at this link http://www.fieldsportschannel.tv/index.php the part you needs is about the 6 minutes into the programme....hope it helps

[h&t]

This is a very good post, IMO.

No it probably won't warp him but it won't teach him to point and hold that point either. Move heaven and earth and take your dog to game ....... but not at this time of year when the birds have chicks. Hunt him onto game and keep on hunting him , he'll probably teach himself to point then "all" you have to do is quietly and non excitably encourage him to hold that point until you command him to make the flush.

If your dog will scent point pigeons in a cage then it will point game ........ if he gets enough work on game and probably several good chases ! Every pointing dog I've ever owned chased birds but since birds can fly they didn't catch them. Once I'd read the signs that the dogs chases were becoming shorter or less enthusiastic then I began calling it back to me and then I began to put in the previously taught stop whistle because then I had much more chance of the dog listening to me ! Gradually I began to blow stop without letting the dog chase so far first and gradually I gained more and more control of the chase situation.
Since the dog was not pointing when I whistled it (corrected it) it did not associate the actual point with any kind of correction. Only the chase was corrected.

Wullie

[h&t]

ROTFLMAO
how old was she when she stopped chasing?

in NA they 'teach' a dog to point planted birds
I won't got into the subjects of tests and trials on planted birds...

On the subject of planted birds ........ if they were not in a cage my Brittany used to move in , peg and retrieve them. If they were in a cage she'd position herself on top of the cage and pee on the poor birds ! She detected human scent on the birds and on the cage and showed her scorn in this way. Yet that same bitch was a very good , trial winning HPR. When she was young she'd chase every bird she found right off the fields ! I used to "have a Hamlet moment" ......... I'd fish out a cigar, light it and smoke it while waiting for her to return !

She was a cracker of a bitch ....... I'd have her back again in a moment ...... she was one of my all time favourite dogs.

Wullie

[trekmoor]

Hi H+T , The brittany bitch was my first ever HPR. She had a dam from Texas U.S.A. and a French bred sire. She didn't look much like folk want brittanies to look now . She looked more like a small setter with a docked tail. She was bought at 8 weeks old and was "hunted" from day one. By 12-14 weeks she could find wild partridge and occasionally point them. By 5 months old she always pointed them but was always chasing after she'd flushed them too ! I think she was 6-7 months before she gave in trying to catch them in flight. I hunted her very nearly every day for 3-4 months to get her to that stage. I used to have what may have been the most plentiful shoot for wild grey partridge in all of Scotland just 5 minutes from my house and this pup helped keep them from getting too fat !

She probably found 3-6 coveys of partridge every time we did a half hour daily hunt. When you multiply that by 3-4 months worth of partridge hunting then it adds up to an awful lot of chases ! I believe dogs go hunting for fun. If you take away the fun too soon and replace it with strict obedience exercises then there is a danger the dog won't enjoy hunting as much and become "ploddy" .......... and I do detest a plodder ! I used to tell folk running under me in tests , trials etc. that if, while their dog was hunting, I had time to yawn and scratch my ass then they wouldn't be getting many marks !

Nae wunner I'm sae popular !

Wullie