Lacking that extra gear

[Gundogguy]

I'm a bit more open minded than that ! I think working cockers are a major breed and I have had experience of training one helluva good clumber that almost certainly would not have won a springer/cocker trial but was as hard going as "lesser" springers and cockers.

I have yet to see any of the other spaniel breeds working to anywhere near the standards I like though so I'd call all the others "lesser breeds."

In retrievers I rate labs , some goldies and some flatcoats ...........or at least I used to but it has now been many years since I last saw a good working flatcoat.

The other retriever breeds are all lesser breeds to me ......especially the curly coats. I have seen a few of these and to call what they did "working" is a big stretch of the imagination. The only Chessy I had much time with didn't retrieve faster than a snail with a sore foot and it would not enter water.

The H.P.R. breeds ? Most of them I like but not all of them..........show ring interests have bred for show wins while paying lip service only to their working abilities.

I.M.O. G.S.P.'s are the easiest to train among the HPR's that do like to "go a bit." Brittanies like to "go a bit" but are not so easy to train ! Vizla's are easy to train but don't often like to "go a bit !"

That's my thoughts on Major and Lesser breeds from a work point of view.

Wullie

That assessment is valid up on this side of the pond as well. Though it would hard to mention Clumber in the same breathe with Springers and Cockers here in the states, just to few to draw a conclusion!

[Dawnrazor]

Jock worked for the Salvenons at Spylaw near Kelso, I remember the big rangy red/yellow dogs he brought to Davies at the grouse, pointer lab crosses are all the rage with grouse keeper's these days, they all walk about with them as if they're the first to have them!! Nothings new!!
You only have to look at some labs to see greyhound or collie in them, nobody should really be surprised,how do people think breeds developed? Nobody was born with a lab dog under one arm and a lab bitch under the other.

[trekmoor]

Yup, that's right . Jock worked for the Salvessons and they also owned a grouse moor near Penicuik that Davy Ewart was the keeper on. I met Jock while working on that moor. Three of my dogs are buried up there. My 2 best ever labs and my best ever Brittany.

Wullie

[Springfield Pointers]

Apologies for my late reply.

Regarding getting dogs onto game early, I like to have a dog exposed to game and shot conditioned by 6 months. Note that this is not a finished dog but the foundation of the basics. I cannot see the point of waiting til a working dog is three years and ensuring it is pitch perfect before exposing it to game.

You shouldn't have to teach a dog to hunt. You breed for that.

Simply put, once the dog understands stop and recall one generally has enough to work with. Quartering is not something one needs to teach. You breed for that. I accept with spaniels one wants to teach range. But I don't - the further the better. Dogs will (should) naturally close down in thicker cover, but again, that stuff is field experience, so getting a dog into game early is beneficial.

I should also add that my objective is a hunting partner first, and trialling is a distant second.

[Cass]

Apologies for my late reply.

Regarding getting dogs onto game early, I like to have a dog exposed to game and shot conditioned by 6 months. Note that this is not a finished dog but the foundation of the basics. I cannot see the point of waiting til a working dog is three years and ensuring it is pitch perfect before exposing it to game.

You shouldn't have to teach a dog to hunt. You breed for that.

Simply put, once the dog understands stop and recall one generally has enough to work with. Quartering is not something one needs to teach. You breed for that. I accept with spaniels one wants to teach range. But I don't - the further the better. Dogs will (should) naturally close down in thicker cover, but again, that stuff is field experience, so getting a dog into game early is beneficial.

I should also add that my objective is a hunting partner first, and trialling is a distant second.

Not the first time I've said I think you're spot on

[Hepe]

Major breed = English springer spaniel.
Minor breed = the rest of the gundog breeds.