Massive problem!

[Stacia]

Never mind as it makes things better in a way, she might not be as frightened of shot as you thought she was

Jelinga

[Wendy M]

UPDATE

Well, We're not totally out of the woods yet....but we're well on our way!!!

We've been slowly working away with Dee and the starting pistol, slowly getting closer and using food after every shot. I decided to continue with the association of shot with food rather than shot with retrieve due to her reaction of not wanting to return with the retrieve following a shot. It took some weeks for her confidence to return with regarding returning to me after a retrieve even in the absence of shot. She would go out pick the dummy and then hesitate before turning the opposite way, all I did to remedy this was put a recall whistle in just as she went to pick then turn abruptly and walk away. I have also done a good bit of retrieving with both cold and warm game since then too.

I waited for a bit of retrieve confidence to return then started work on the starting pistol again, using food.

I began noticing that although she would still react, her recovery time after each shot became less and less. So I knew we were making headway. I can also clap now before sending her for a retrieve and all is well!

So…Yesterday was the first pheasant day here, the drive after lunch was right behind our house so (with the help of a kind babysitting mother-in-law!) I took Dee out and stood in the field in line with the other pickers-up, but out of the way a wee bit. I wasn’t looking specifically for a retrieve but if she was happy and an easy one presented itself I would have sent her for it.

She reacted a bit when the first shots went off, but as they continued so too did the nice juicy food, and she relaxed into it. Just as the drive finished I sent her back for two dummies I had dropped in the field earlier, she went straight back, picked the first dummy and came straight back with a perfect present, same with the second, no hesitation, no worry!

We then met in with the other picker’s up, beaters and guns and walked back to the game cart with them before returning her to the kennel.

I’m very pleased with this progress and will try to repeat this exercise next week, when the same drive is taking place, this time I will try to give her a proper pheasant retrieve too.

Very happy that the process hasn’t taken as long as I thought it might at first.

Wendy

[Rascal]

Hey well done Wendy...........

Rascal

[Naj]

Great news, Wendy. And credit to you in sticking with the dog & working your way around the problem.

Naj

[trekmoor]

When the next shoot takes place will there be a gun posted right beside your kennels again ?

I would probably go the route Andrew suggested earlier, I'd "wild her up" a bit. She has got to start sometime.She is not a puppy. I'd take her shooting, keeping well away from the guns to begin with. I'd get her retrieving very simple fresh shot dead birds as the shooting went on. I would avoid any situation where the dog would have to be handled as it retrieved for a while because the bitch might associate the handling and the bangs in a bad way, she might think she was being corrected. I'd wild her up a bit. I'd try to have her associate bangs with very enjoyable retrieves and I wouldn't mind if she did run -in .....it is better than running away.

Wullie

[Wendy M]

Wullie, we've actually moved to a new house since last pheasant season - same estate just a different house, there is still a drive very close to the house and kennels, but the closest gun is about 200 yards from the kennels rather than just 20 feet away from the last kennels!

Will definitely make sure she gets a nice easy retrieve or two next shoot.

I see what you're saying about "wilding her up" so we'll play it by ear and see how we get on, it would be nice to keep the steadiness as much as I can; don't really want to build the association of shot = run-in, as then we've to work on "correcting" that.

Hopefully by the end of the season I will have a nice dog competent and confident on a shoot!

Wendy

[Springfield Pointers]

First of all, I would completely avoid any shot or clapping hands on throwing anything. In fact I would not throw anything either. I would get her interested and revved up with birds and with NO shots being fired at this stage. Let her chase some if necessary. Once she is happy and looking forward to her "outings" then start with the dummy's again. once she is happily on those again, then introduce shot again. My suggestion with a dog like this would be to bring the shot back in the presence of birds only, and once she has a visual of them/it. You want to keep the association of shot with birds on a dog like this. Do not try and "see if she is OK" by firing a pistol or clapping your hands together. Just keep her away from gunfire or any sharp reports completely. This may take an entire season to rectify, but it can be done. Small steps. Also remember that a 12g sounds a lot different to a starter pistol or a dummy launcher, and a 12g at a distance will be softer on her - make sure you are upwind of the shot when you get back to that stage of the conditioning.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[Wendy M]

Interesting SP.

Although I don't see that getting her revved up on birds to the point that I then have to correct behaviours like chasing and running in would be necessary in order to overcome her nervousness of shot TBH.

She is totally fine on retrieving warm game so far in the absence of shot. My thoughts were to build the association that gunshot means something pleasurable.(surely it doesn't really matter what that 'pleasurable' thing is just that there is an association in her mind that gunshot means something good will happen.) Then when she is happy/relaxed to be around gunshot, bring in retrieving again.

As a non-slip retriever at this stage the gunshot should not be a "signal" for anything in particular, just a background noise while she is working?

Wendy

[Goffy]

i would continue as you did on the previous shoot day, keeping your distance, rewarding with juicy treats, and hopeful of a warm game retrieve.
obviously watching for any unhappy behavour head low, tail limp etc.
it sounds to me from your post that the dog is learning that shots = positive rewards, i would, if she is showing an interest in a near downed easy bird, to just let her go and get it without being restrictive in the steadiness, 1 or 2 giddy retrieves can soon be steadied.
keep taking it slow but i would take her to the shoot at the end of the day there is only you that can see how the dog reacted and if you read that she was happy then build on this.
jan

[Naj]

It sounds to me that Wendy has moved on a great deal in desensitising the dog to gunshot - it withstood standing in a picking-up line & was still motivated to retrieve a dummy, and since it will also pick cold & warm game, I can't see any problem in it picking shot birds over the next few occasions she takes it on a shoot, with Wendy's careful handling of the situation. From what she describes, it doesn't sound as if it needs 'wilding up'. Wendy has put a big commitment into training positively, and in 'wilding up' the dog she would quite likely have to throw all that out of the window and resort to aversive & compulsive methods to steady it, which will alter the whole dynamics of the dog/handler relationship which she has been so carefully nurturing. I think that she has the capacity to pull this one off without that.

Naj