Chasing.

[Springfield Pointers]

Just to throw a spanner in the works, it's perfectly possible, & laudable, to train a dog to be steady to game without the use of a stop whistle or stop command of any kind. Those of you who teach the stop command first & only then put it into a game situation are quite likely doing this (to a lesser extent) already without even realising it, because the minute most spaniels get onto game the stop training generally goes out the window & you have to work on stopping the dog from scratch, so why go the 'command' route in the first place when it invariably fails at the first hurdle. Another problem with teaching a dog to stop to command on game is that when you aren't able to see the dog you aren't in a position to stop it so it may well revert to chasing. In any event, it makes more sense from a training perspective for the flush to cue the stop rather than throwing an unnecessary/superfluous command into the mix.

Naj

Great point Naj, and this is pretty much what is done when one starts training on game. However it is easier to reinforce known commands when the dog gets a case of the red mist. If the dog knows the 'sit/stop' command it is a base to work off. In essence, I never correct a dog for chasing, I correct it for not sitting when it's told to. Soon the flush becomes the command to sit/stop.

[Naj]

Do you think that the dog appreciates the distinction.

[trekmoor]

Dunno ? But they do sit to flush !...... Usually what happens with my own dogs is that I train the sit to flush until the dog does it well. Then the dog goes picking up among cover where I cannot see them and the steadiness becomes an extinction event after a while ! I then have to refresh the dogs memories.

Wullie

[David]

I only mentioned shock collars to get a response and it's worked.

They all bite within seconds. I wish I could get such a potent bait when I go fishing!!!!! As it happens I was going to suggest he use's his Gun!!!!! It will only chase the once.

[Judy]

Catapult would be kinder but might take more than one shot.

[Naj]

If a dog that has thoroughly learnt the lesson of being steady to flush suddenly decides to break, then it would just as likely break to a whistle command, all things being equal.

Naj

[Springfield Pointers]

I drill the sit to flush. The dogs must stop to downwind bumps. The best value is ten pigeons a day in a bag, while you're on a walk throw them out near the dog while they are least expecting them, they soon learn if you are consistent with your correction. For me the value in stopping a dog on flush, whether it's a pointed bird or a bumped bird, is that when you are shooting partridge they are very rarely singles, and if the dog is prone to tearing off on flushing birds the usual result is that the dog puts up the rest of the covey and your shooting mate is grumpy. Get your dog stopping on flush. There is good reason for it. It's not just to look pretty in a field trial.

[Rascal]

I only mentioned shock collars to get a response and it's worked.

They all bite within seconds. I wish I could get such a potent bait when I go fishing!!!!! As it happens I was going to suggest he use's his Gun!!!!! It will only chase the once.

"They" I'm assuming you are including me in that comment David?

I have no problem with an ecollar per se. What I do object to is them being seen as the silver bullet to make up for trainers short comings. Only recently we've had someone suggest using one to train the heel position so some folk obviously see it as such.

I've seen dogs on shoots wearing them on the highest settings and the dogs writhe and yelp but very often carry on right on going... I was in a wood when some guy's spaniel had found a bird and was returning to it's handler, unsighted by the handler. Obviously it was not returning quick enough to the handlers recall so he decided to shock it with the result that the dog dropped the bird and apparently now is useless as it's hard mouthed.... I wonder why....?

I do think they have their uses as part of a training plan and as a last ditch attempt to stop a persistent livestock chaser. But unfortunately they are most often used inappropriately and that I do object to. Dogs aren't stupid either and know when they are wearing them and when they are not and behave accordingly a bit like a long line if overused very often..

I do agree with you a gun is a pretty useful piece of kit though when training a gundog, it teaches it gun sense and gives it the full picture. The gun can chose to miss or reward a sit to flush with a hit and a subsequent retrieve.

And yes I've bitten again and will probably continue to do so to mindless comments tossed into a thread out of boredom...

Rascal

[Springfield Pointers]

I think Rascal has eloquently outlined the problems of using the e-collar with ignorance. Correctly has been pointed out that it is far from a silver bullet. It is, used correctly, an extremely effective training tool. Used in ignorance it will ruin quality dogs.

[Judy]

Come to think of it a couple of mine were still chasing dummies, never mind game, at eight months old... You just have to persist with the "leave it" and "no!" commands alongside lots of basic obedience whilst exercising and training in game free areas, its simple if you think about it.