Clumber or Springer?

[CTID1897]

The missus says that I can get another dog come spring. I think that I want a spaniel. A springer or clumber, not a cocker.

Sometimes I think that I want a clumber but then other times I don't think I do
Some look really handsome whilst some look really ugly. Sometimes I think that I would like their slower manner but other times I think that I would want them to get a move on.

I would mainly use it for picking up and rough shooting although I do fancy joining the beating line from time-to-time to mix things up and get some much needed exercise!

As someone who is still new to training gundogs I would be grateful for the views of those more experienced. As a generalisation are they easier or harder to train than springers? Do they mature earlier or later? Are they better retrievers? Are they less driven when hunting? etc.......

Thanks

[Alice]

as generalisations- harder to train, slower to mature, significantly worse retrievers, and you may want them to get a move on when hunting...

I think with a springer that's bred right, you have a very high chance of getting a useful dog. A clumber that's bred right is a joy, but is still a) relatively hard to find and b) no guarantees it will retrieve to a high standard.

I really like the minor breed spaniels, I have several friends with them, and I always enjoy going to minor breed events. I have been tempted to have one several times, but it's the song and dance needed to get a reliable retrieve from them that's always the sticking point for me. I just don't think I'm patient enough to get the best out of one!

Of course there's always exceptions, and I expect Wullie will be along to tell you about Big Ned soon enough....

[WGD]

Get a springer, far more good working stock to choose from to give yourself a chance of success with the dog.

[AlandJake]

I have to agree with both Alice and WGD.

I had been tempted by the Clumber, for reasons very similar to your own. I didn't want a firecracker of a trial-bred springer. But they aren't all like that.

Having seen a few Clumber demo's at the CLA, I think I would have outgrown the dog's sedate nature quite soon. I already have a very chilled Lab.

I took the plunge and invested in a well-bred, "nice" ESS, and she is an absolute joy. Yes she is quick at everything, but that also includes learning. She has a very natural retrieving drive and probably won't take much encouragement to hunt.

As a secondary matter, the Clumbers I have seen advertised have been twice the price of good ESS pups.

Best of luck to you and pup whatever you decide on.

[trekmoor]

I do not disagree with any of the above posts. My personal experience of clumbers is limited to the two I trained , a bitch and a dog called "Big Ned." I have seen a few other clumbers out working but none of them were a patch on Ned. Ned would retrieve all day long if allowed to and gawd help anything that got in his way . I once tied him to small sapling growing on top of shale and soil.

I threw a dummy for another dog and Ned decided he wanted it, so he went for it taking the wrist thick sapling with him roots and all ! He had a lovely soft mouth and loved retrieving game above all else .....apart from running -in !

As a hunter he was as good as most springers but not as fast as a field trial standard springer. Ned had no fear of cover, I don't think he knew it was there. He didn't so much go through it as take it with him ! I loved that dog and so did my wife. Ned was a perfect example of the perfect housepet and he just ignored my cocker Charlie's attempts to bully him . My cockers got on very well with him , Ned was completely non-aggressive and that came from his certainty that he didn't need to prove himself.

In size Ned wasn't really much bigger than a really big springer ......nothing like the ponderous show ring brutes that can weigh as much as 80 lbs.
In training I found him to be more stubborn than a springer if he didn't like the lesson and he was very strong in both body and mind.
It is vital with this breed to choose where and who you get it from very carefully before buying a pup. The breed does have health issues but maybe not so much so among the true working types ....possibly due to them weighing so much less and to the owners of the work types thinking a bit more about grass seeds etc. getting into droopy style eyes.

Since having Ned I have been told by people interested in using him at stud that he is not as much of a "once off" as I had thought.
Apparently there are some really good clumbers on the go now. One of them won an A.V. Novice trial I'm told while competing against springers and cockers.

I enquired several months ago about getting a pup from Ned and a good bitch. The mating never took place as they are too closely related and the clumber working stock is "tight" enough as it is. I have now got a springer pup coming my way .
Taken overall a springer pup is more likely to deliver a hard hunting, keen retrieving sort of dog than a clumber pup is ......but I'd still love to own Big Ned.







Wullie

[CTID1897]

Thanks for the comments so far and based on what people have said the best option does appear to be the springer. Provided it isn't too 'hot'.

[crackerd]

As someone who is still new to training gundogs...

This is the crux of your choice in getting a spaniel. Each reply to your inquiry has been spot-on. The mitigating circumstances might be that you are still new to training gundogs, but have gone all in, or "whole hog" as the Yanks say, and might be able to train up a Clumber whilst in the confidence-building company of experienced spaniel trainers. That's how it worked for me with a Sussex, and my gratitude to those who "held my hand" throughout in training to the top level possible for the breed in the USA is undiminished all these years later.

Or... you could play it safe (and sane and sound) and go with a working springer.

I never tire of Wullie's tales about Big Ned - he makes a good bookend for my 13-year-old gal, Gembo (a/k/a Clementine) who likewise I never tire of showing off



as she goes about her "other job" as a working gundog, for which she is divinely suited.



MG