Credible Cockers!

[Dawnrazor]

They don't. I've seen results for a Springer that said Springer and Sprocker (same dog tested twice). I've seen results from a Cocker of Irish breeding (none of the lines accused) - Sprocker. I've seen pups by a recent Championsip winner being accused - full cocker.

No-one is shouting the results that don't fit the argument from the rooftops. Why would they?

You've seen " a" test for a springer that came back sprocker, ok, what about the one I've mentioned, that was just a fluke? It didn't come back as great dane, Kerry Blue, dalmatian it came back breed specific. So, how are so many coming back with the results I've said, and they are, they can't all be flukes, can they. Why did the three dogs tested come back accurately?

[Contender]

Should someone wish a slight pause and to take a breather from sprockergate, here is a little read about what has happened in the labrador breed - un-official but known to many at the time. If you don't know about this lady then do some research about her as she had a huge influence across most gundog breeds but in particular labradors..

http://surrylabradors.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... eeder.html

A few quotes from the article:

"..The blacks did not suffer from this cross so much. Although we could not avoid it altogether, except in the Trial lines, and they had put in a Greyhound cross, followed by a Sheepdog cross, so they too had completely lost type and temperament only in a very different direction.

The gulf between these two major divides remains to this day and is immediately obvious to the eye!

So here we had one link with coat and colour, many yellows were tainted by Foxhound blood, the blacks not so badly affected, so they had totally different characteristics. This was reflected in my own kennel, which willy-nilly eventually got some of the tainted blood in, although for years I managed to avoid it, knowing the source."

"...But, although I did not see this with my own eyes, I am pretty sure that somewhere in Scotland, two Flatcoats were used to restore the temperament, good mouths and kindness, which were all in danger of slipping. I was told by the owner of the Flatcoat Stud dog (and a splendid fellow he was, both for looks and work) that a Labrador had visited him and that “My old Ch. Is doing jolly well for you Labrador people and you ought to be jolly grateful to him”. When I genuinely looked astonished and said that I didn’t know what she was talking about, she replied, “Well, if you don’t know, I’m not going to be the one to tell you”. After a time I didn’t need telling because my eye told me the fact about the show dogs. Again, we are only just starting to breed out the Flatcoat traits we got in. I rather agree with the owner of the Ch. Flattie, it was a very good cross, if a cross had to be made and did us little or no harm except for longish coats, feathered tails and horrid black eyes. The second Flatcoat was introduced by a Scottish Gamekeeper. I do not know what dog was used, though I know where it was used and on what bitch. Again, it had a lasting effect on coats and tails. In both cases, livers started cropping up in the strains, rather unexpectedly. But again, no harm was done except for long coats, feathering and too dark eyes. In the Field Trial and working strains there was a sudden change of swimming style. These dogs swimming with their heads and shoulders high out of the water as they went out towards their birds, but settling down when returning, although not swimming as low in the water nor as quietly as a true Labrador does. However, this crossbreeding has now just about been assimilated and was on the whole fairly harmless."

Ahhhh, the good, old days - anyone care to wisdom test their labrador?

Natasha

[Stacia]

My older Lab, when younger, had the look of a "touch of the Flatcoat' Mrs. Roslin-Williams came to live in our village and I asked her to coffee one morning! I had GSPs then.

[Miesque]

They don't. I've seen results for a Springer that said Springer and Sprocker (same dog tested twice). I've seen results from a Cocker of Irish breeding (none of the lines accused) - Sprocker. I've seen pups by a recent Championsip winner being accused - full cocker.

No-one is shouting the results that don't fit the argument from the rooftops. Why would they?

You've seen " a" test for a springer that came back sprocker, ok, what about the one I've mentioned, that was just a fluke? It didn't come back as great dane, Kerry Blue, dalmatian it came back breed specific. So, how are so many coming back with the results I've said, and they are, they can't all be flukes, can they. Why did the three dogs tested come back accurately?

You are the only person on this entire thread who cannot grasp the fact that Wisdom Panel tests are as useful as pissing into the wind. I mentioned three test results in my post, not one. Perhaps try re-reading it.

[Dawnrazor]

They don't. I've seen results for a Springer that said Springer and Sprocker (same dog tested twice). I've seen results from a Cocker of Irish breeding (none of the lines accused) - Sprocker. I've seen pups by a recent Championsip winner being accused - full cocker.

No-one is shouting the results that don't fit the argument from the rooftops. Why would they?

You've seen " a" test for a springer that came back sprocker, ok, what about the one I've mentioned, that was just a fluke? It didn't come back as great dane, Kerry Blue, dalmatian it came back breed specific. So, how are so many coming back with the results I've said, and they are, they can't all be flukes, can they. Why did the three dogs tested come back accurately?

You are the only person on this entire thread who cannot grasp the fact that Wisdom Panel tests are as useful as pissing into the wind. I mentioned three test results in my post, not one. Perhaps try re-reading it.

I grasp that that's what you think and other, I've said I accept that, now you skillfully avoided answering my simple questions for about the fifth time, you a Tory politician look truly transparent!! Now go and read my questions again and if you can, answer them, if you can't, that's OK, if you do.t know just say so.

[Judy]

Think its been so long you need to ask your questions again, DR.

[Sgurr]

DR I think most of us who are concerned about integrity with breeding are looking at DNA Profiles from AHT.
Please accept that the Wisdom results may show a trend but they will not stand up legally.
I have tried to explain and I am now saying there is no point continuing the discussion with you as the situation has moved on.

[Naj]

Don't know where you got your 475 tests from, DR, but I don't think it's anywhere near that number. Someone was asking for a ballpark figure tonight ... 5, 10, 50, 100 .... and got no response. And would you believe that some people have tested but dont wish to divulge their results, whch is their prerogative but a bit strange. And re the 3 dogs you keep mentioning there is some ambiguity over the actual results and Andy has appeared to have been reluctant to post the full documentation but has finally promised to do so tomorrow. There seems to be a lot of hope based upon wishful thinking. The KC does support profiling that can be used to prove parentage and AHT is its preferred agency. That's the obvious way to go but the KC seems to see dodgy breeding as a sale of goods issue.

Naj

[Naj]

The 475 is nothing to do with breed testing but the number of dogs tested for AMS with Antigene (?)!!

And I've just read a reply from Wisdom which clearly states that the tests are not intended to refute KC registration papers nor are they intended to determine or validate whether a particular dog is purebred! They can't make it any clearer than that but people just don't want to hear it.

Naj

[Dawnrazor]

I understand what you are saying about numbers tested Naj, Miesque seems to Base thier dismissive attitude of the test on 5 tests, I know for a fact there been many many more than that, Platty's had double that done himself!!! That's only one person.
Miesque also mentioned 3 tests that weren't accurate, fair enough, happy to accept that as I've said.
The questions i have asked that everyone has skipped around is...........OK, I'll make it simple, if the tests are rubbish, please please please explain the accurate ones.