Neutering

[Nickheref]

I am wondering what makes the difference between a good working dog who can trial and one who cannot. For me a dog who can do everything pretty well, (water cover mouth etc) and get thought of as a good dog must have enough pace to cover the ground and be a pleasure to watch.
I currently have three, one bred as a trial dog (if that is possible) and two who were bred to work, the trial bred one has the least overall pace and is the worst working dog amongst them in my view (although curiously quite good at picking up but doesn't have enough drive/desire to find unshot game as a rough shooting dog for me anyway) , of the two I believe the one would definitely have trialled if I wanted to and I suspect the youngster may as well looking as how she is shaping up. Whether either would become a FTCH is another matter but there have been quite a few good dogs who haven't managed that but I wouldn't be embarrassed turning up to a trial with them. If you are going to get put out let it be because of over enthusiasm .
So what is the difference between a good shooting dog and a trial dog? I accept that training has a lot to do with it and a dog aimed at picking up may not be able to trial but that is down to it's training not it's inherent ability.
I have spent long hours pondering if I got the trial bred bitches training wrong and it is my fault as things she does well, she does very well but others she is pretty useless at, she only really hunts with venom on scent (when she looks pretty smart and if I only saw her at her best a couple of times I would think she was great) but the rest of the time is rather dull and irritating to watch whereas the others hunt ground merely because they have been given the opportunity to hunt and as a result they find game and it is a sort of circle, the more a young dog hunts the more it finds, the more it wants to hunt but it needs to want to hunt to start the process with me at any rate as I no longer have access to ground heaving with scent but there is enough if a dog is prepared to work for it a little bit. When out on exercise the two find about 5 times each as much game as the trial bred bitch simply because they cover more ground at pace rather than pootling about at half revs although I actually think she has a better nose than either of them but doesn't have the mental attitude to make the most of it.

[Judy]

For my needs my Trial bred bitch is a disaster!

[Springfield Pointers]

I have always looked to hunting dogs first, and trial dogs second. A good hunting dog can always make a good trial dog, but unfortunately it doesn't necessarily work the other way around. You can't train hunt into a dog.

[westcountry]

I have always looked to hunting dogs first, and trial dogs second. A good hunting dog can always make a good trial dog, but unfortunately it doesn't necessarily work the other way around. You can't train hunt into a dog.

So you have won trials with these dogs? Or are you saying that you could win trials with these dogs?
My boy is a great hunting dog,does everything I ask of him in the field. But will never win a trial,wont even get off the starting blocks. Unless you have trialed you have no idea of what you are up against.

[Springfield Pointers]

This is a large problem of trials for me WC. You can train a dog to win a trial. Some trial winners I would not look at in terms of breeding for what I like.

[Miesque]

I have always looked to hunting dogs first, and trial dogs second. A good hunting dog can always make a good trial dog, but unfortunately it doesn't necessarily work the other way around. You can't train hunt into a dog.

So you have won trials with these dogs? Or are you saying that you could win trials with these dogs?
My boy is a great hunting dog,does everything I ask of him in the field. But will never win a trial,wont even get off the starting blocks. Unless you have trialed you have no idea of what you are up against.

So what's wrong with trials that a great hunting dog that does all that's asked of it won't win or at least make the awards? (And before we start, yes I have trialled)

[westcountry]

I stated that my boy wouldnt win a trial or even come close. Not anyone elses dog,my dog. I have trialing dogs and he is not one of them. He is however my number one picking up dog,my peg dog when I am shooting. He just has not got the pace and style required to trial. Dont mean I think any less of him though.

[Miesque]

So is trialling rewarding the wrong things? Are we in danger of creating lines that are useless for "real" shooting by continually rewarding the speed merchants?

[westcountry]

I am sure that all non trialing folk would agree with that.

[Springfield Pointers]

Trialling spaniels is obviously a very different thing to hunting, from what I've seen. We clearly do things a little differently - and besides, this thread is about Neutering...