Hunting what your thoughts?

[Springcopse spaniels]

Training a dog for work, tests or trials is virtually or should be near identical. It's only the polish that's different.

[newf]

Your dog is working correctly, when finding foot scent he is dropping his head carriage and when looking for scent his head carriage is correct position. This is the natural instinct of the dog and its breeding. This incessant thought of thinking a dog needs its head glued to the ground shows the extent of what trials have become not knowing what a game finding dog is to do.
I was marked down heavily by a B panel, and I asked why. He said his head carriage was to high whilst hunting certain terrain, and I replied stating that we hadn't missed any game on our run. There was no reply.

I would not have the patience or tolerance. Unfortunately being part of a club or organization is putting up with inconsistent reasoning.

[Naj]

Your dog is working correctly, when finding foot scent he is dropping his head carriage and when looking for scent his head carriage is correct position. This is the natural instinct of the dog and its breeding. This incessant thought of thinking a dog needs its head glued to the ground shows the extent of what trials have become not knowing what a game finding dog is to do.
I was marked down heavily by a B panel, and I asked why. He said his head carriage was to high whilst hunting certain terrain, and I replied stating that we hadn't missed any game on our run. There was no reply.

This. ^^^

Forget about tennis balls! I’d rather hunt spaniels on dickie birds if you’ve not a lot of access to game. Never had a spaniel that needed balls or anything else to get it hunting.

Naj

[ESS]

I thought thats how you do it so they find stuff close to you?!

[ips]

I thought thats how you do it so they find stuff close to you?!

I have limited experience but I will give my two peneth although its probably only worth hapeny. I think it depends what you are going to do with the dog. If your going to rough shoot then thats a totally different thing to beating on a modern commercial shoot were you need the dog hunting at your feet with the odd occasion of requiring dog to hunt a little further out so on that basis i agree with you ess get it finding balls at your feet. The thing is that beating on a modern commercial shoot the dog is bumping stuff rather than actively hunting stuff in fact most of the time dog is doing neither because shed loads of birds are visible to it so in reality steadiness is THE most important things for a beating dog, that and bloody nearly 100% reliable heel work.....i will get me coat

Furthermore, most of the time from my experience folk spend most of the day trying to stop the dog pulling out to hunt rather than actively tryimg to get it hunting. I believe that training for beating "specifically" is a whole different regime than FT training......defo get me coat

[newf]

Sounds logical to me. Ian, after all, you have a fair bit of experience under your belt cause that is your specialty: beating. Furthermore, you have dabbled in rough and hide shooting so we have to listen.

[ips]

Sounds logical to me. Ian, after all, you have a fair bit of experience under your belt cause that is your specialty: beating. Furthermore, you have dabbled in rough and hide shooting so we have to listen.

Thanks Brian.
I now have 5 seasons under my belt and as you know have been beating on quite a few different shoots so i like to think that although inexperienced by comparison i have some things to offer. I found rough shooting challenging at first as i had spent 4 seasons keeping her close then i asked her to get on, she was confused as usually gun in hand such as hide shooting or shooting driven at peg means she sits steady....context as naj would say. Anyway as i say imo beating holds no resemblance to FT and yet that is the regime we seem to follow and then wonder why many come unstuck on a beating line i have spoken to more than one keeper on the subject who would rather not have FT trained dogs on the beating line and who agree totally with my sentiment.... someone at some point should do a training manual / regime for the modern beating dog as thats what most of us in the uk do

[westcountry]

The only reason why keepers dont like trial dogs is that they are well trained , hunt close ,stop to flush and make their disobedient ill bred muppets look stoopid.
How does beating hold no resemblance to field trials? I know of many trialing men who work their dogs in the beating line and you can bet their dogs are bang on the whistle. One of the top FTCH s has spent several seasons in the beating line. A dog trained to trial standard is capable of doing any job,whether beating or picking up.

[westcountry]

In your opinion ips trial dogs are not capable of beating? Jack russels and collies are capable of beating. None could win a trial. However you can take a trial dog beating and it will never show you up.

[Naj]

In your opinion ips trial dogs are not capable of beating? Jack russels and collies are capable of beating. None could win a trial. However you can take a trial dog beating and it will never show you up.

Never show you up! Brave words, WC.