The other day I was walking across the wind along the verge of a big field. Mia was nose down busy, so I threw a dummy a good way out at right angles into the wind and down the slope without her seeing. I walked on. Then I stopped her!
It's all about the training!
Re: It's all about the training!
There have been some strong winds recently, so even I know which way it is blowing without having to resort to fussing about with bits of grass.
The other day I was walking across the wind along the verge of a big field. Mia was nose down busy, so I threw a dummy a good way out at right angles into the wind and down the slope without her seeing. I walked on. Then I stopped her!
, made her wait!
and then sent her by pointing across to where I thought the dummy landed. What Mia did was run straight back along the verge, and in one fluid movement turned sharply into the wind, and collected the dummy. It was so pretty to watch. Maybe she was supposed to take my direction, or maybe she already knows better.
The other day I was walking across the wind along the verge of a big field. Mia was nose down busy, so I threw a dummy a good way out at right angles into the wind and down the slope without her seeing. I walked on. Then I stopped her!
Re: It's all about the training!
I realised I had inadvertently taught my dog something which I didn't really want at the weekend. It didn't take long to sort out but it was something I had done and shows context yet again. I walked my dog into a wood and sat him down in front of me when picking up and we had a bit of a wait whilst the drive started, normally he would sit quite happily by me for however long we waited when out on a walk but he knew this was a shooting day and me walking him into a wood on a shoot day always means I will sit him down, wait for a minute or so, slip a couple of cartridges into my gun and cast him off to hunt, so he kept asking me why he couldn't get on with it!Naj wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 12:43 am
You can condition ‘stillness’ without saying a word, which is far better than using a command because it is choice based and not command based, something I always prefer. When on a walk and she’s fairly close periodically just stop and relax. After a short time she should stop and look at you to see what you’re up to, or come and just stand by you.
Re: It's all about the training!
Just because it turned out right ... doesn't make it right
What have we learnt from this? Mia doesn't understand your direction cue ... or does not trust it over HER ability.
What do we do about it?
We teach direction where the wind does not work in her favour. AND ( But separately ) we also direct her to a point where she can use the wind and her ability so she can better trust your direction when you give it.
Also remember that post from PRH about the issue of sending a dog across a slope. A dog will always find it easier to follow a line in nature rather than an imaginary one in a trainers eye. Plus it will always back track the scent line left by you ( until it learns your directional cue ... and trusts it
Go stand on the naughty stepThere have been some strong winds recently, so even I know which way it is blowing without having to resort to fussing about with bits of grass.![]()
Re: It's all about the training!
Even while Mia was whizzing back, it occurred to me that I hadn't quite got it right, even though it was lovely to watch. Of course BLB thinks she knows better. Poor thing has a novice lead monkey to educate. She is trying!
So, if I understand correctly, I need to find somewhere, where I can throw dummies while Mia is out of the way, there is a steady breeze, and I know where the dummies have landed.
Then, I need to:1) direct Mia down wind so she finds a dummy along the line I have indicated, and 2) direct Mia across the wind (perhaps just a little down wind?) so she finds a dummy where I have indicated and where she will catch the scent.
Perhaps no too far to start with, but Mia is supposed to trust me, rather than just see where the dummy is, so some cover is necessary.
So, if I understand correctly, I need to find somewhere, where I can throw dummies while Mia is out of the way, there is a steady breeze, and I know where the dummies have landed.
Then, I need to:1) direct Mia down wind so she finds a dummy along the line I have indicated, and 2) direct Mia across the wind (perhaps just a little down wind?) so she finds a dummy where I have indicated and where she will catch the scent.
Perhaps no too far to start with, but Mia is supposed to trust me, rather than just see where the dummy is, so some cover is necessary.
Re: It's all about the training!
OR; Mia had heard the dummy drop... Another teeshirt.munstyman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 1:10 pmJust because it turned out right ... doesn't make it right![]()
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What have we learnt from this? Mia doesn't understand your direction cue ... or does not trust it over HER ability.
What do we do about it?
We teach direction where the wind does not work in her favour. AND ( But separately ) we also direct her to a point where she can use the wind and her ability so she can better trust your direction when you give it.
Also remember that post from PRH about the issue of sending a dog across a slope. A dog will always find it easier to follow a line in nature rather than an imaginary one in a trainers eye. Plus it will always back track the scent line left by you ( until it learns your directional cue ... and trusts it) when it is unsure of where your sending it for a retrieve ( true blinds ) if it is there for it to use. ( why I advocate doing a complete 180 circle around a blind before sending the dog )
Go stand on the naughty stepThere have been some strong winds recently, so even I know which way it is blowing without having to resort to fussing about with bits of grass.![]()
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In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
Re: It's all about the training!
Well yes and no. You can make training too serious if you try to plan a head for every eventuality. I prefer the go out and see what presents itself and do a little of that. In a way, I do what your little dog did, I make use of the ground to best suit my ability or what I want to achieve.Kibble wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 4:47 pm Even while Mia was whizzing back, it occurred to me that I hadn't quite got it right, even though it was lovely to watch. Of course BLB thinks she knows better. Poor thing has a novice lead monkey to educate. She is trying!
So, if I understand correctly, I need to find somewhere, where I can throw dummies while Mia is out of the way, there is a steady breeze, and I know where the dummies have landed.
Then, I need to:1) direct Mia down wind so she finds a dummy along the line I have indicated, and 2) direct Mia across the wind (perhaps just a little down wind?) so she finds a dummy where I have indicated and where she will catch the scent.
Perhaps no too far to start with, but Mia is supposed to trust me, rather than just see where the dummy is, so some cover is necessary.
It is very rare that there is no wind at all, so you have to first learn to get that right. Scenting conditions are not the same as wind, so you have to learn that as well.
For directional training I've said before I use variations of the wagon wheel seens and seek backs, with the odd blind to proof. In the early stages of true blinds I will be much more focused on wind and aim to direct the dog into the wind cone of the retrieve rather than direct to the retrieve. ( this stops the dog becoming too reliant on pure direction and switching off its nose
The most important thing to remember is that Mia did nothing wrong in that retrieve, she accomplished the retrieve.
A secret training tip from a trainer when you forget where the retrieve is - It is a planned true blind exercise teaching the dog to quarter search an areaand I know where the dummies have landed.![]()
Re: It's all about the training!
I expect planning, without flexibility, is a common rookie error.
When you have successful experience, you will presumably have accumulated lots of different training options, as well as the flexibility, and confidence to swap things about or just try another time.
It's nice when tainers, who clearly know what they are doing, post the occasional, 'didn't go to plan' anecdote. It is easy to think 'all is lost' when things go a bit wrong, especially when the Web is full of 'you must never...'. edicts.
I am trying to generalise 'walking nicely on a lead, without tugging or lunging' to country tracks and verges. It seems to be easier for my dog if we are walking into the wind and cross wind is hard.
The other day I saw a pheasant walking in the wood by the track, about the same time as Mia either saw it or more likely smelt it. It started crowing and got an answering crow from the other side of the track. Mia didn't know which way to turn, looked at me and then sat.
Re: It's all about the training!
Kibble, interesting topic...in a down wind, you.want them to go beyond the dummy and work using the wind , once they catch scent they will work close in that area to find the dummy...if they get out of area. One has to stop the dog and direct to the area of the dummy and hi-lost whe they are close tto the area o work that area. Success improves Success.. .learn it oneself to help the dog be successful..mike
Re: It's all about the training!
To learn oneself, you'll be a gundog enthusiast. It all goes together..
Re: It's all about the training!
If any experienced trainer says their dog doesn't go wrong or their training always goes to plan they are talking absolute b*****ks.
As for those "edicts", also b*****ks. I learned cynicism with my first gundog, we used to play tuggy games, she had a good delivery and a soft mouth, contrary to what the books threatened. I read that you should never give a youngster a pigeon to retrieve because the feathers are too loose and it will put them off, what did she bring me? A pigeon she'd found - her first bird retrieve. In fact most of my dogs have found and brought pigeons voluntarily at different times. All a bit like five minutes per month - possibly a good generalisation but don't worry too much about it.
In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.