Drops dummy at my feet on retrieve

[Kevburt]

Hi
Trainging my year old spaniel for 5 months now.
He fine on retrieves . Only problem is Im struggling to get him to hold the dummy, he keeps dropping it before he sits.
Not sure how to fix this. He holds rabbit ball better, but I need to be quick to get it before he drops it. I want to trail him. A dropped dummy on retrieve is 0 points.
Is there a fix for this.
Help would be appretiated.

Kev

[Judy]

Morning, I have moved your post to the training section, you may get more replies here.

I find my Cockers have a tendency to drop the dummy if they are asked to sit before delivering it, not sure why! First thing I would do is get the dog coming to you and sitting automatically without the dummy, every recall. Then teach the hold / give routine separate from the retrieve - give the dog the dummy, ask for it back, praise or treat, repeat. Then put the dummy on the ground between you and ask him to hold then give. The next step, once he has grasped that, would be to sit him up, walk away a couple of paces, throw the dummy down between you and ask for the hold / give routine.
I have also had success with having treats about the house, calling the dog and standing as I would to take the dummy but having a treat in my hand - the dog gets into the habit of shoving its nose into your hand and should, after a bit of practise, shove the dummy into your hand.
To be scrupulously honest, I abandoned asking the Cockers to sit before giving me the retrieve, it was easier than trying to get them sit and hold at the same time!

[Naj]

Don’t bother with the sitting delivery. It’s not required for field trials and in the shooting field you don’t really need it.

[Nickheref]

Don’t bother with the sitting delivery. It’s not required for field trials and in the shooting field you don’t really need it.

This would be my answer but slightly bizarrely I have one who sits with a dummy but stands with game. The only reason I can think was his early deliveries were on place-boards and he was asked to sit on those in his very early training, so if it really bothers you it might be worth trying a place-board to get the dog used to sitting in front you them bring in the retrieve when the dog is happy with that, often the problem is you are putting pressure on the dog to sit even if you don't think you are which it doesn't like and struggles with two things at once so the dummy gets dropped.

[ips]

Um , my input has no real credibility given that I am on my very first dog so the following is an observation based on my somewhat limited experience rather than a recommendation ..... I trained a sat delivery on dummies and I found it to be very helpful especially in the real world of birds as I consider it to be a distraction to dropping the dummy or bird

[Judy]

Um , my input has no real credibility given that I am on my very first dog so the following is an observation based on my somewhat limited experience rather than a recommendation ..... I trained a sat delivery on dummies and I found it to be very helpful especially in the real world of birds as I consider it to be a distraction to dropping the dummy or bird

I think you are possibly right, Ips, I'm just a lazy trainer, I do what works for me while avoiding having to put in too much effort in the actual training.

[Naj]

Depends how you train things. If a ‘sit’ is just tagged on to a retrieve to hand then the dog may not see it as being integral to the retrieve and drops the dummy in anticipation of the ‘sit’, or it may see it as being aversive (the same way in which it can punish a recall) and if you have to insist on the sit it punishes the delivery. If it’s been taught as integral to the retrieve then there should be no problem. If you’re having to grab at the retrieve then concentrate on teaching the dog to hold until given the cue to release.

[ips]

Um , my input has no real credibility given that I am on my very first dog so the following is an observation based on my somewhat limited experience rather than a recommendation ..... I trained a sat delivery on dummies and I found it to be very helpful especially in the real world of birds as I consider it to be a distraction to dropping the dummy or bird

I think you are possibly right, Ips, I'm just a lazy trainer, I do what works for me while avoiding having to put in too much effort in the actual training.

I am sure that you put a lot of effort in judy x

[ips]

Depends how you train things. If a ‘sit’ is just tagged on to a retrieve to hand then the dog may not see it as being integral to the retrieve and drops the dummy in anticipation of the ‘sit’, or it may see it as being aversive (the same way in which it can punish a recall) and if you have to insist on the sit it punishes the delivery. If it’s been taught as integral to the retrieve then there should be no problem. If you’re having to grab at the retrieve then concentrate on teaching the dog to hold until given the cue to release.

So are you saying that training / demanding a sat delivery is actually aversive in the dogs perception???

[Nickheref]

A lot depends on the dog, some are very happy to give you retrieves, others really think they are theirs and are slightly reluctant to hand them over.
As a rule of thumb dogs usually hand retrieves over knowing it is yours and you did them a favour letting them go for it whereas bitches think they are doing you a favour by giving it to you! So the happy givers don't have any issue sitting to deliver but the reluctant givers see sitting as yet more enforcement against their real wishes leading up to them having to relinquish what is theirs! That's how I see it anyway and I have had bitches who were happy givers and dogs who were more reluctant but it is all generalisation.

I may be slightly skewed at the moment as every morning when out for a run a dog brings me a present of some sort which his gives to me whereas his sister also picks something up and decides to eat it/destroy it/bury it and only gives it to me at her kennel gate