Drops dummy at my feet on retrieve

[Springfield Pointers]

I've ironed out this problem by eliminating the sit - it's not necessary. If the dog drops it, anticipation is the key here. As you see he's looking to drop it, take a step backwards. My guess is that you've inadvertently trained this behavior. When he presents it correctly shuffle him back to where you were initially and give lots of praise - ie: make him give it to you rather than taking it from him. Don't praise where its presented if you step back. With all things training - anticipation is your friend.

[munstyman]

A lot depends on the dog, some are very happy to give you retrieves, others really think they are theirs and are slightly reluctant to hand them over.
As a rule of thumb dogs usually hand retrieves over knowing it is yours and you did them a favour letting them go for it whereas bitches think they are doing you a favour by giving it to you! So the happy givers don't have any issue sitting to deliver but the reluctant givers see sitting as yet more enforcement against their real wishes leading up to them having to relinquish what is theirs! That's how I see it anyway and I have had bitches who were happy givers and dogs who were more reluctant but it is all generalisation.

I may be slightly skewed at the moment as every morning when out for a run a dog brings me a present of some sort which his gives to me whereas his sister also picks something up and decides to eat it/destroy it/bury it and only gives it to me at her kennel gate

This and SP's post nail it for me. There are dogs that give willingly in their nature and those that require "encouragement" to hand it over. You adjust your training from that starting point, but the key thing to remember is that you train for the end result in that the dog gives you the retrieve and not just allow you to take it/catch it.
Since being introduced to the palm touch technique I've found this a good way to achieve a good present and hold in itself. The dog seems to easily understand it and it also trains the handler to not snatch and take their time ( relax), thus avoiding secondary pressure on the dog. Adding the sit to the stand present is not such a distraction if the dog is already ready, and waiting, to give you the retrieve.

[Nickheref]

I quite often see people trying to use the sit as a way of stopping the dog parading with or refusing to hand over the retrieve and then move in to take the retrieve rather than working on the actual delivery.

[Naj]

Depends how you train things. If a ‘sit’ is just tagged on to a retrieve to hand then the dog may not see it as being integral to the retrieve and drops the dummy in anticipation of the ‘sit’, or it may see it as being aversive (the same way in which it can punish a recall) and if you have to insist on the sit it punishes the delivery. If it’s been taught as integral to the retrieve then there should be no problem. If you’re having to grab at the retrieve then concentrate on teaching the dog to hold until given the cue to release.

So are you saying that training / demanding a sat delivery is actually aversive in the dogs perception???

No, I’m saying that some dogs may find it aversive. That may well depend upon how the sit has been trained. If a dog willingly sits in keen anticipation without the need for a command then that’s obviously no problem, but if the handler is having to repeat ‘sit’ while pressuring the dog to ‘obey’ then that’s going to be aversive to the recall/delivery. In that case the ‘sit’ punishes any decent recall that the dog might have had. And as Nick points out if a dog has a possessive nature then that’s another reason why it may be reluctant to return, regardless of whether it has to sit or not, but that’s a separate issue.

[ips]

Depends how you train things. If a ‘sit’ is just tagged on to a retrieve to hand then the dog may not see it as being integral to the retrieve and drops the dummy in anticipation of the ‘sit’, or it may see it as being aversive (the same way in which it can punish a recall) and if you have to insist on the sit it punishes the delivery. If it’s been taught as integral to the retrieve then there should be no problem. If you’re having to grab at the retrieve then concentrate on teaching the dog to hold until given the cue to release.

So are you saying that training / demanding a sat delivery is actually aversive in the dogs perception???

No, I’m saying that some dogs may find it aversive. That may well depend upon how the sit has been trained. If a dog willingly sits in keen anticipation without the need for a command then that’s obviously no problem, but if the handler is having to repeat ‘sit’ while pressuring the dog to ‘obey’ then that’s going to be aversive to the recall/delivery. In that case the ‘sit’ punishes any decent recall that the dog might have had. And as Nick points out if a dog has a possessive nature then that’s another reason why it may be reluctant to return, regardless of whether it has to sit or not, but that’s a separate issue.

Oh that's ok then as my girl willingly sits for a delivery I always trained it as I thought that was expected (plus it looks good ) never needed any pressure to do so

[Judy]

Oh that's ok then as my girl willingly sits for a delivery I always trained it as I thought that was expected (plus it looks good ) never needed any pressure to do so

Show off....

[ips]

Oh that's ok then as my girl willingly sits for a delivery I always trained it as I thought that was expected (plus it looks good ) never needed any pressure to do so

Show off....

[David089]

Beginner here and been through this problem. From dropping 90% of the time and tearing my hair out trying to fix it, to now holding completely reliably - never even comes into my mind anymore. All I did was follow snicks sticky thread on here on hold conditioning. Worked perfectly!