Problem retrieving

[Snicklefritz]

at 8 month', the young dog ,has confusing messages in the world?..trying to make sense of it all?...some puberty', and hormonal, mixed with a bit of teething, and a whole lot of 'growing up'.

Some are not 'born retrievers', and my guess is 'you are trying ""text book"" type excercises with a "hunting/flushing", au naturale'
My advice::... dont give it a retrieve???...give it a 'Find'? ...forget the come back ,and forget the 'delivery', just praise the ''find''
everything else ,is just 'fun'....plain sailing.good luck

Just for the sake of a different point of view, Robert....heh,heh....

At 8 months the dog has had his adult teeth for some time, his hormones peaked about 4 months ago and are already subsidding, and unless he has an owner or a group of mature dogs to correct him, the 'growing up' is without guidance of any sort.

If you concentrate on the 'find' you'll soon have a dog that just wants to hunt...that's not a retrieve. Retrieving is visually marking the fall, at least to the area of the fall, and then picking it up and returning...little hunting required when marking is good.

My advice is to work on making the retrieve (the dummy/bird) the be all, and end all, of his existence...

What say you,. Robert

Snick

[trekmoor]

I have no idea what Robert will say but to my mind if a dog finds something - especially something it believes might be valauble to me - and picks up and brings that thing to me , that is a retrieve. An awful lot of picking-up work on shoots is based on just that.Very often my dogs don't see the birds fall into the woods and only hear the shots , they don't even see the birds being fired at. I can trust my dogs to go out and sweep the woods for those completely unseen birds and know that they will pick up and bring to me any birds they find while completely out of my view for a very large part of the time.
The same sort of thing is normal on the grouse moors. The butts are maybe 200 yards away from my picking up position and are sometimes in a fold of the terrain where I cannot see them - just hear the bangs. Grouse tend to be low fliers and a good number of them tumble unseen into the heather. Again the dog has to hunt an area - not hunt a marked retrieve. Much of the time I don't know myself where a fallen bird is, only that an area of land needs to be thoroughly hunted.

The run from a handlers side out to a retrieve isn't much use if the dog then will not complete the retrieve. The handler would be just about as quick walking out and fetching it himself.

I would agree that a good retrieve is a "whole" and not just a part of a retrieve but the run out to the fallen dummy or bird is usually the "easy" bit, many dogs straight out of a cat and dog home would do that part of a retrieve. I.M.O. if a dog will hunt for "finds" it is off to a good start as a retriever ???

Wullie

[Rookie]

I IM.O. if a dog will hunt for "finds" it is off to a good start as a retriever ???

It's exactly that bit of the retrieve that I am really struggling to get a labrador to do at the moment. The drive and enthusiasm just isn't there, yet, and the dog is now 3yr old.

If it happens to stumble across a bird, or gets wind of one easily, then it'll pick it up. If it has to actually go hunting hard and persistently for something that may not even be there, it gives up very, very quickly. Not much use for the kind of work I want the dog for. Frustrating, but a slight improvement on last year when I watched it follow it's nose to a grouse, sniff it and come back to me without the bird.

Just my very limited experience, but IMO, the dog has to want to find what it's looking before before it can complete any of the rest of the retrieve. (Funny how this dog can sniff out a half-eaten pie lying under a vehicle within moments of being let out of my vehicle.)

[Polmaise]

I have no idea what Robert will say but to my mind if a dog finds something - especially something it believes might be valauble to me - and picks up and brings that thing to me , that is a retrieve.

The run from a handlers side out to a retrieve isn't much use if the dog then will not complete the retrieve. The handler would be just about as quick walking out and fetching it himself.

if a dog will hunt for "finds" it is off to a good start as a retriever ???

Wullie

I believe , 'the dog will only do what is 'valuable to it'? ..not me!(that value ,in retrieving', is to "get another"?) imo.(for the dog)...the fact that 'it brings it back', to 'me', is only the 'trigger', to 'start the process ' for the next one'
I also believe', the reason we use dogs for a retrieve', is because we '...cant ''''find'', that thing that has fallen ,or gone to 'ground'?,,,because 'we',dont have a 'nose', like a dog!
Snick:.Love to 'shoot the breeze', one day ?..
The 'scenario', you suggest'/..at 8 month (this 'flushing dog '{spaniel}..)...is just a 'baby'?..teeth may have 'formed'?..but it aint 'realized', what they do?..(other than chew)..It aint realized', what 'organs', are for?..or there uses?

I would put it in the category', of 'the 'eleven plus', (past the grade', but cant tie its shoe laces)
robert

[glenn1111]

hi guys
just my thoughts on the retrieving prob.
I had a similar prob with my cocker who started to circle or run past with the retrieve .11 months old.
I stopped retrieving work for a while and in that time i seriously reinforced what had become in hind sight a sloppy recall.(easy to overlook when your all having so much fun)
Went right back to basic short distance of a few feet and worked up to about 25yds but it has to be right. both verbal and whistle.( gives you options for encouragement)
when i reintroduced the dummy it was without warning and at a very short distance of a few feet again.
Dog ran out picked dummy, recall and return before he really seemed to realise what he had done.
on return i gentle took the weight off his front feet with my hand under his chest and gave him a few seconds holding the dummy before i took it then praise in that position.he thinks he is getting the biggest cuddle in the world (which he is) but it also means he cant really mess around.
not text book but at least he was back with me dummy retrieved.
work on the posh bits can wait a while i recon.
work up distance from there.
i think my prob was upping the distance too soon for a young un and that gave him too much time running out to think about other things.
worked for me.
good luck