Charlies Chatter - MK.1

[trekmoor]

Originally posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:55 pm
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This morning I was out training with Gdunc and his cocker Ellie. A lovely morning with a definite but not too strong wind. The ground was a patchwork quilt of light grass, spike grass , a lot of gorse bushes and a few brambles. One or two small bushes poked up in places. Very rabbity looking and the dogs thought so too !!!

Ellie hunted first then Charlie - they both had the same fault - they hunted too far out and we pretty much just had to wait until our little darlings decided to return. Whistles and shouts would have been ignored so there was no point in giving them.

We tried again and after that initial high spirited charge around they began to quarter considerably better. We were still taking "shots each" at hunting our dogs and things were going pretty well as the dogs began to settle. I was out of puff and had a surreptitious sook on my puffer, training cockers is knackering !

A couple of dummies were tossed towards a bush we would recognize from a distance then we walked the dogs away about 50 -60 yards. Charlie and Ellie both got these memory retrieves with minimal bother.

I have been wanting to see Charlies reaction to bangs with another person present and making the bangs. I let or even encouraged Charlie to run in as Duncan fired and threw at first from 30 yards or so then closing in to 15 -20 yards. It doesn't seem like I have too much to worry about. Charlie seems O.K. under these conditions with bangs from a starting pistol.

We tried other retrieves and both the dogs did what was needed with few problems except for Charlie when a Dokken pheasant dummy was thrown. He found it O.K. but decided this plastic thing wasn't a dummy and went off to check out rabbit scents. I persuaded him to pick it then chucked it out again, this time he brought it back fine.

We tried another hunt this time in a spike grass patch in among the gorse bushes. Ellie worked this pretty well but when Charlie got his turn he proceeded to show Duncan some of his aeriel leaps, he was trying to see rabbits over the tops of the spike grasses ! He topped this performance by disappearing into the gorse and keeping me waiting a moment or so before he came out again. He returned from 30 -40 yards away and did a victory leap hard into my six pack or beer barrel ! He was quite chuffed with his performance ! It's a good job I have a ridiculous sense of humour and find his optimism and flamboyance more often amusing than annoying !

A sit to shot and thrown dummy as Ellie hunted was next and that went O.K. but maybe not as well as we'd hoped as I tried to judge the dogs running direction , throw the dummy , fire the shot and keep a hold of Charlie all at the same time.

Duncan tried it for me and I'd asked for the shot to be fired and dummy thrown in such a way that I could "cut Charlie off at the pass." To my delight this worked very well. Charlie stopped and went into a 3/4's bum down when the dummy in the air , the shot , my whistle and hand signal all coincided nicely. I was chuffed to bits ! I sent Charlie to retrieve and after a bit of a hunt he found it and gave it to me.

I had preceded this with a couple of dummy throws and stops to whistle as Charlie hunted. When Charlie sat I'd went to him , praised him and then quickly tossed a dummy in the opposite direction to the first , then sent him for it . This gave him a reward for stopping even after seeing a dummy in the air. These two retrieves gave Charlie a good idea of what to do when the mark was thrown by Duncan and the shot was fired.

We stopped at that ,we both felt the dogs had done enough. Hopefully we'll meet up again in a week or so ,this time on my ground.

From my point of view it was a good mornings work.

Wullie

[trekmoor]

Originally posted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:52 pm
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Today has been a dead loss. I've been stuck in and around the house waiting for a delivery van, a rone pipe cleaner and a washing machine repair man. I do wish it was possible to specify to an hour either way at what time they will turn up !!!

I've played about with Charlie doing this and that but just diddling around bores and irritates me. If he didn't at once sit to whistle for example I was getting annoyed. I can easily get away with this fault in my character ,with a soft or sensitive dog, if I get peeved while there is game around. The near presence of game and my deficiencies in the temper department tend to cancel themselves out !!!

With no game around and already irritated at being kept around the house I was in danger of "losing it" at the wrong place and at the wrong time with Charlie - - - I packed in and read a book instead.

Wullie

[trekmoor]

Originally posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:51 pm
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I took pity on Charlie and took him out this evening for a bit of remedial work. I've been wondering and worrying ever since that lab held him under water if this has put Charlie off water.

I took him to where a small stream only 10 feet wide and 1 foot deep at most runs through some thick woodland. I did some stops to whistle on the way there and a little hunting in the woodland, Charlie did what he does best, he chased, not a rabbit this time. Right beside the wood only 80 or so yards away there is a large deep pond. Charlie found and flushed an otter ! Through the tangle of fallen trees and branches, bramble clumps and god knows what else they went with me bringing up the rear as fast as possible. The otter went into a big pile of old logs and trees and brashings left by the forresters and I just managed to get there in time to catch Charlie by one hind leg as he too wriggled his way in underneath !
I had to put him on lead to get him away, he's got bits of bramble bush trailing off all over him !

We reached the stream and apart from checking at the slightly steep bank he was all for it. I gave him two retrieves from the far side both of which he did easily. I now have him sitting before I throw, he is accepting this divergence from his usual run in very well - better than I'd hoped really. This prompted me to take this a stage further tonight. I haven't taught him to stay yet. I now made a start to my version of stay training.

Charlie wants the dummy but he also wants me. If things can be balanced properly it is possible to have a dog stay caught between one want and the other. I tossed a dummy 20 yards away from the path into the woods. I put Charlie on lead before doing so , now I walked him 30 yards further along the path. I sat him but did not "line him up," the lead was now taken off and I backed slowly away down the path . I felt he was at breaking point when I got about 8 feet away so I stopped, still facing him , gave the stop whistle even although he was already sitting, then sent him to retrieve with a vocal command and a "Heil Hitler "salute hand and arm signal. For a split second Charlie looked confused then his memory kicked in and off he went and did a really good retrieve.
My repetition of the stop or sit whistle while a dog is already sitting helps to reinforce the sit but more than that it reinforces something I think is very important. The dog is learning that the whistle also means "Look at me, I am about to redirect you !"

I have been noticing that when Charlie decides to sideslip me , which is most of the time, he does so on my right hand side. After realising this tonight I began to accept retrieves crouched down but with a tree trunk hard up against my right hand side. He came straight into me every time. This is much easier managed than trying to have a fence behind me all the time.

Charlie did a bit more hunting and managed to find the deepest , gooeist, slooriest , slimiest treeroot pothole in the entire wood. He is manky and he is stinking ! He has bits of bramble bush trailing from his hairy wee ass ! In short he is a happy wee spaniel - I took him home to see my wife - his mum !!!

Wullie

[trekmoor]

Thu May 15, 2008 11:26 pm
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Last year about this time I was trying to get my G.S.P. pup to mark at further ranges than I can throw a dummy to. In a nice grassy field surrounded by woodlands I asked my wife to take my dummy bag about 50 to 60 yards away, shout and then throw dummies for me.
She went off the required distance semi whispered," Ahoy there!" - - - she likes sailors ! then "threw" a dummy - it landed about 5 feet from her. I swallowed my temper and got her to try again. The shout was a little better and the throw went maybe 15 feet , I settled for that.

The pup was sent but meanwhile the soup dragon had heard a dickie bird high up in a tree and was gazing upwards trying to see it. Since she'd done what she considered to be her bit towards training the pup she dumped the dummy bag at her feet totally oblivious to my angry roar which she assumed - if she heard it at all - was directed towards the pup and not towards her.
The pup thought it was Xmas and happily rummaged around in the bag selecting the best possible dummy while she continued to gaze skywards and I continued to roar blue murder at her ! She happily informed me she'd seen a bloody woodpecker and I informed her that her head would give it good pecking materiel !!!!

I think it was about 4 days before we spoke again ! She has not thrown one single dummy for my dogs since and accuses me of bad temper ! Grrrrrrrrr

Wullie

[trekmoor]

Fri May 16, 2008 1:55 pm
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This afternoon I took Charlie back to the river. I also took my old G.S.P. bitch to fetch back what he didn't. This turned out to be a wise precaution.
Charlie didn't fancy it much and my old girl had to go in for the tennis balls I was using. I tried a proper dummy and Charlie waited and watched as the old girl waded out for it then he decided he could do better and lunged out and past her for it. My old girl turned and looked at me as if to say, "Shocking manners these kids today." then just waded back ashore.

Things went better after that though he still looks a bit wary. I walked a few hundred yards along to the place where the lab half drowned him. He would not go within ten feet of the water there, I quickly withdrew from the entire area.

Up at the mill race he very obviously enjoyed retrieving from the far bank of this narrow and mainly shallow stream. After moving along to deeper water but with a two feet drop to the water I tossed in a tennis ball intending it for the old girl. He crouched then took off after it down that almost vertical bank, he got the ball but couldn't get out again . I had to fish him out by the scruff - he held onto the ball and he did a sort of mid air delivery as I held him up looking like something the cat had dragged in ! He seemed to enjoy it so I tried again and in he went again and needed helped out again. The big river worries him the small stream does not.

I tried a couple of sits to whistle on the way back but he wasn't really in the mood for doing anything fast, he'd ran off his surplus energy. He stopped but needed vocal prompting to sit 5 yards or so from me.

Back at the car there was a low wall, only 2 -3 feet high , the other side of it is only 2 feet high , it is a steep bank covered in grass and very thickly planted daffodils now long past their best. Out of curiousity I tossed a tennis ball over the wall and sent him for it. I don't think he's had much practice at jumping , it took him two tries to get over it. He had to hunt hard to find the ball buried in among all that lot but he did find it and came back over to me with it.

A reasonably good training session. He hasn't got over his fright yet but he isn't utterly terrified. I think the place scares him more than the actual water does. I'll continue to work carefully near rivers, I don't want any more mishaps.

Wullie

[trekmoor]

Originally posted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 pm
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The rain at last went off this morning and I at once grabbed the chance to take Charlie out. The place I took him to has a few rabbits out around the fringes. They often sit out in the thick spike grass clumps that are in a field adjacent to some thick woodland but separated from the wood by a pigmesh fence . This is useful for in the event of a chase the fence stops the dog while the rabbit seems to run straight through. At the time of day I went there I didn't really expect tp find anything, Joe Public and his dogs will have been through several times long before me.

I walked around the area near to the wood to get the wind into our favour in order to try to get some kind of pattern going. When released Charlie went nuts !!! The rain had freshened things up and the wind was bringing all the luverly scents to him. More than a few times I had to catch up to the little devil as he got too far from me and was going out of control. He eventually got the message that I wasn't kidding and began to hunt a pattern instead of just boring into the wind.

I saw a rabbit run for the fence but the spike grass which is hip height on me prevented Charlie from seeing it . He hit into its scent though and if I'd thought he was going fast he now showed me he still had a couple of high gears left to go !!! He totally vanished from view among the grasses, he was squirming under and through tiny tunnels among the spike grass from which he erupted every so often covered in broken off grass stems from head to toe - he looked like a tuffet on springs !

I hunted him on, trying to stop laughing long enough to handle the little black strimmer. Rabbits must have been moving out of the spike grass and into the wood unseen by me for Charlie maintained this workrate all the way down the fenceline. Every so often he arrived at the fence and gazed longingly through it into the wood, it was pretty difficult to call him away from that fence. If it hadn't been there he'd have been into that wood like a shot. That is a very useful fence !

He was now battering through spike grass clumps, following tiny tunnels under some others and taking flying , bouncy leaps into the air to see over the tops of a select few of the. others. I was flying him by the seat of my pants ! He dived into one big spike grass clump and a rabbit decided discretion was the better part of valour and bolted from the other end ten feet away. Charlie went demented under the clump, he cannot have seen the rabbit but he certainly winded it, the clump shook and heaved as he made his way through underneath and completely invisible to me. Jings this spaniel lark is exciting stuff ! He came out of the other end looking like a berserk haystack and charged off towards the fence. I didn't bother blowing whistles I knew he would not respond.

Having finished this strip I moved further into the field. Rabbits are less likely there and I hoped to get a little more control into his hunting. He'd had his fun and settled quite well to this. I did have to put him back "on the spot" a few times but he took this well not becoming in the least cowed or sulky - it's amazing what being worked near rabbits can do ! His breeder advised me that he'd seen enough rabbits but at present I am using the rabbits and their scent to put in the bits of control I want without him feeling too "downed." I will keep on assessing and reassessing Charlies attitudes as I go - keep on flying by the seat of my pants !

By the time this training session was over Charlie was sitting fast to whistle 20 feet from me and stopping but needing a vocal and visual command added to ensure a sit at more than double that distance.

I lost a tennis ball out among the spike grass somewhere. I'd thrown it while Charlie was hunting, the whistle, a hand signal and me stepping into Charlies view line were all needed to gain the sit and prevent the run in. Unfortunately this meant that I hadn't seen where the ball landed and neither had Charlie for I'd not only badly distracted him, I'd actually blocked his view. He tried really hard to find it but could not so I sneaked out another tennis ball and let him "find" it.

A very pleasing little training session - I was going to say a very hair raising session but I'd have been lying - - - - I haven't got any left !

Wullie

[trekmoor]

Originally posted: Sun May 18, 2008 12:09 pm
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Late this morning I went back to the same place as yesterday where the fenceline helps me control Charlie. I saw no rabbits still out among the tussocks this time but Charlie still hunted well and I had just a tinge more control over him ! Just as I finished the section I saw two men running towards me shouting their heads off. One of them had a lurcher on a lead beside him . It was then I noticed another lurcher coming through the tussocks at full speed towards Charlie. I once witnessed a wee dog being killed by a greyhound in seconds on a Dundee street. I know what a dog of that size can do and this was a big lurcher. I threw a dummy trying to hit it but missed by a mile in front. This was enough to make the lurcher investigate though and I got a hold of Charlie and lifted him out of the way.

The lurcher now approached and was perfectly friendly. It's owner reached me and apologised. I accepted his apology but suggested he make certain no small dogs were around before releasing it again. He looked really worried about what might have happened and left with his dog firmly leashed.

This was the first lurcher of this breeding I've ever seen although I believe this cross is used to hunt coyotes in the U.S. The dog looked part Borzoi to me.

I gave Charlie some retrieves and he did them well but still runs in for occasional ones. He is looking at me far too much and failing to mark the dummies to the ground. He starts staring at me as soon as I swing my arm to throw.

The little devil has caught on to my using trees etc. to block his right hand body swerve as he returns with the dummy. He is now doing left hand body swerves ! Grrrrrrrrrr !!!

Wullie

[trekmoor]

Originally posted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:54 pm
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This morning I had a couple of visitors in the form of Brittany ladies. Since only one had a dog with her I handed Charlie over to the free handed lady to hold while I walked or worked my G.S.P. This poor lady was occasionally pressed into service as my "dog boy" (please see glossary ) as she was also asked to hold onto my G.S.P. while wee Charlie was working.

We had gone out onto the area I call the Tussocks and we were really trying to do some H.P.R. work rather than spaniel work but it was all good experience for Charlie meeting new people and new dogs.

Dummies were tossed for a memory rterieve into some thick long grass up the side of a rough embankment beside a wood. We walked about 100 yards off from the dummies to a point where the dog would be just lost from vision as it hunted through the tussocks for a dummy. A wood was on the dogs left all the way out and a grassy, bushy verge was on the right. This area has rabbits, occasional pheassnts and occasional deer - a lot of scent distractions. When sent Charlie did this retrieve easily.

I also gave him one very short retrieve today of a huge dummy I made to be at least as big as a hare but only perhaps half the weight. He struggled a bit to get it in his mouth and to get the balance but once he had it he brought it back to me and was very pleased with himself.

The H.P.R. 's did their thing with Charlie as an interested observer then he got a short hunt in some easy spike grass clumps with no game scent , this was in a non rabbity area used a lot by dog walkers. Charlie didn't go very well in it , he lacked his usual fire but he did handle well only bogging off once to a fence bordering a wood that contains rabbits. As he charged back to me following this little adventure I threw a dummy high over my shoulder, blew the stop whistle, hand signalled Charlie and "cut him off at the pass" all at the same time ! Charlie screeched to a stop and a sit almost at my feet - - - a couple more years and he'll get the hang of this !

We went from there to the river where Charlie got me really worried, he saw the Brittany bitch belonging to Jan - Ghilliegumdrop on this forum - already in the water. He went straight off the top of an 8 feet high almost sheer drop to the water to get to her - either he's as randy as hell or he's nuts !!!

I gave him a retrieve from a big deep pool and he did it splashily but easily. He didn't really get much to do today but what he did he did well - or at least I was pleased with it.

Wullie

[trekmoor]

Originally posted: Tue May 20, 2008 8:09 pm
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Back to the same place this morning but to a different part of it. There is a few rabbits around this part of the place. They weren't out but had very kindly left their scent behind.
I'd gone there to try to help a lady with her cocker spaniel bitch. I like this bitch a lot but she is taking the mickey out of her very likeable and kind hearted owner. She has been trying for at least two months to prevent her year old bitch from running in but the bitch lulls her owner into a false sense of security by sitting perfectly steadily while dummies are tossed all around her while she sits but then running in when a more interesting dummy is thrown outside of the sit/stay/steadiness situation.

Her owner is a very long way from stupid but this little bitch is clever in her own evil little ways - she has been getting away with this.
Two or three months ago I looked after this bitch while her owners were on holiday. We like each other and get on very well but she knows not to mess me about too much and she tends to do whatever I say even though I may not see her for weeks on end. A recent topic springs to mind - I think it was called "aquiring presence." In this bitchs' mind I have presence - wish Charlie thought the same !

I was getting steadiness from her when her owner could not. If I was the owner I would be bloody annoyed at that but this lady is far too nice to be annoyed.

We did a hunt through tussock grass clumps and the wee bitch led her owner a merry dance. The bitch was being hunted straight into the wind and almost right away she caused her handler to actually run to keep up with her as she took some monster sized forward bites into the wind. I managed to calm things down a bit and it all ended well with the bitch quartering nicely. I showed her me stopping Charlie as he hunted and also showed her Charlie being made to sit every time he tried to dodge this little chore. There was a lot of rabbit scent present and both Charlie and the bitch were proving to be either difficult or deaf or both ! This was at very close range - as little as 12 feet. The dogs really enjoyed it, being corrected doesn't seem so bad to them when there is all that rabbit scent about and maybe - just maybe - a stoopid one will still be sitting out there!

We did a few marked retrieves with each dog and finished with a 100 yard plus memory retrieve down a hill along an overgrown dirt track. Both dogs did this very well. The delivery was the weak point for both dogs. The bitch tried to get her owner to come ,chase her once she'd returned to within 15 feet or so while Charlie did his usual sideslip.

The training session was finished with a swim in a nearby pool for the dogs. This was the bitches first time in swimming depth water - she went in and swam as if she'd been doing it for years !

This bitch is just back from a holiday in Scotlands West highlands last weekend. Her owner told me she had removed more than 20 ticks from her after only one day. If you're heading up that way - beware !

Wullie

[trekmoor]

Originally posted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:55 pm
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This morning I began by hunting Charlie through slightly heavier cover than he has been in so far. A mixture of saplings, brashings, big clumps of spike grass and dead bracken with new stuff growing through it all. Charlie managed just fine but I didn't I, I stumbled ,tumbled and stalled again and again. When Charlie inevitably disobeyed the turn whistle and got too far out I had no chance of getting to him quickly to "reason " with him.

I ceased hunting and tried a few retrieves. These went very well but a new problem is beginning to crop up. Since I began keeping him sitting during and for a short while after a retrieve is thrown he has began to ignore the dummy and stare at me waiting for the signal to go for it. This results in serious mismarking. I have seen this before with labs, spaniels and H.P.R.'s. It is a problem common to people who throw their own dummies but it isn't confined to only them. Before trying to prevent or cure this problem I want to see what happens if he is given a good number of marked retrieves with someone else doing the dummy throwing.

He still tries to side slip me but he is now very happy and confident around me so I have began to berate him as he sidesteps. I didn't want to do this before because I felt he did not know me well enough to accept it without being frightened. It is working but I don't like this - I may have to only do retrieves when I have a fence at my back . I could use treats but for me that is just about the last resort. It is just too easy to cause a problem rather than cure it. I am not anti treats , I do use them but I try to avoid using them to cure retrieves when possible.

I moved to another area easier for me to move through and hunted him again. This went better, he still took in too much ground but now I could reach him a little more quickly. I did a few whistle sits at about 12 to 15 feet, sometimes he sat, sometimes he crawled on his belly with his hind legs dragging behind him creeping back to me and sometimes he gave me the finger and carried on his own sweet way ! I did quite a bit of dragging back and placing ! He looked pathetic but the instant the release command was given and he was allowed to hunt again he tore about like crazy once more with a big grin all over his evil wee face.

I finished with a 100 yard plus memory retrieve down an overgrown track. He did this very easily and gave a fairly good delivery after being scolded for sideslipping me.

Wullie