What is a TOP STUD DOG??????

[keanerthanroy]

Jehovah witnesses never get a look in here because I dislike having something rammed down my throat. Maybe your efforts in promoting health would be more effective if the approach was less forceful? I like to try something and decided myself whether it tastes nice.

Have really only 49 bitched been to Art?

Jonathan

[Judy]

Ok guys, I can see both points of view but surely a good stud dog is one who can pass on all the good points? Not 'just' competition nor 'just' good health? I like nothing better than to watch a good stylish dog work whatever breed it is, I hate to see any dog which can't move well or one which lacks enthusiasm or ability. Look at the whole dog if you want to better the breed.

[arwesa]

Jehovah witnesses never get a look in here because I dislike having something rammed down my throat. Maybe your efforts in promoting health would be more effective if the approach was less forceful? I like to try something and decided myself whether it tastes nice.

Have really only 49 bitched been to Art?

Jonathan

Who knows.....Id just like to have access to all the breed info and results tests etc. so I can see for myself and make my own choices...

[paul spaniel]

[quote="paul spaniel" i think its more down to handlers not being able to train todays temperment of dogs, all i hear is people complaining about this sire and that sire, then go find a differant breed which suits, whats happening is people are breeding from shit bitches

The two things kind of conflict do they not? Are they sh*t bitches...is it the training handling?[/quote]

both..

[monsoon]

[quote="paul spaniel" i think its more down to handlers not being able to train todays temperment of dogs, all i hear is people complaining about this sire and that sire, then go find a differant breed which suits, whats happening is people are breeding from shit bitches

The two things kind of conflict do they not? Are they shit bitches...is it the training handling?

both..[/quote]

What constitutes or qualifies as a sh*t bitch in your opinion PS?

[paul spaniel]

we all no what a bad one looks like..

[monsoon]

we all no what a bad one looks like..

In all honesty, I have not the experience to make this kind of judjment, however, if ' we all know what a bad one looks like' is true...how come this is a problem...'if we all know', I assume you mean trainers...how come the shit bitches are not left on the shelf for Joe public to take home and park in the garden for the rest of their lives?

[paul spaniel]

i mean all of us who handle dogs from the competiter to the average rough shooting man..

[Duncan]

I would be keen to know what people think re stud dogs.

Doing some research on a old dog (non FTCH) I noticed that his Sire(non FT dog) bred four FTWs from the one mating to a non FT bitch and it got me thinking.

What if we were to measure success as the Proportion of winning offspring that a sire produced out of his total offspring?Would to top dogs still the top sires.

If a sire(a) gets 100 bitches and breeds 500 pups and 50 become winners that is a 10% success rate(+ this dog may get FTW bitches as well as FTCHs and some shooting bitches)
The sire(b) that gets 5 bitches(normally gets no FTWs or FTCHs)breeds 100 pups and has 10FTWs ,is he a better sire given that he has the same success from a lower amount of matings?Would he breed a higher % if he got the same amount of bitches as dog (a)

I know that the quality of the bitches is hugely important but you would have to think that dog(a) gets more top quality bitches given his status?

what do yee think?We may have great stud dogs out there that are untapped?

Example based on FT in off gundogs.nu websit.(i know both dogs have had multiples of these figs)

Clarburh Art 49 matings recorded.(lets take litter average as 6 pups 300pups) 50 recorded FTWs and FTCHs. 16%/17% winners.
Stedroc Ker 15 matings recorded.(lets take litter average as 6 pups90pups)50 recorded FTws and Ftchs.Over 50% winners.

Is steadroc the better?I dont know?What do ye think?

Is it the handlers that are producing the ftw or the said top stud dogs?,i know what i think.

[paul spaniel]

if the breeding wasnt behind them they wouldnt be good enough to win..