Interesting article?

[Bryn]

You and the O.H. will have to begin to sing from the same Hymn sheet.

Wullie

Agreed, started working on it today. In hindsight we should just have given that session a miss and it was unfair of me to ask Nellie to take him to a situation which brings out the worst in him.

[Bryn]

Nellie (and Bryn prick your ears up to) I don't wish to jinx anything but what if ...

Last year my Dad had to stay in hospital over the weekend after a wee stroke - he is the kennel hand in their house and Mum rarely interacts with the dogs out in the kennels. I went over and helped out - their dogs are used to me and it gave them a little bit of normal until their master returned. I use a different training style to my Dad but his dogs mind me and mine mind him. I didn't undo anything they know but I also didn't have delinquent dogs on my hands.

It is great that you have such faith in your gundog trainer - but who lives with the dogs 24/7?

Cathy

Very good point, given my tendency to do daft things with machinery requiring a trips to A&E..........

[Judy]

My OG thinks the dogs are French ~ if he shouts loud enough they'll understand.

[Naj]

Considering how easy it is to train a 4 month old pup to be steady to a thrown dummy without any harsh physical correction, what Judy said about the Gundog demonstration is pretty amazing. That many 'enthusiasts' will, undoubtedly, have seen this as acceptable behaviour by a professional trainer is worrying. Somebody mentioned that its all very well trainers moving into the 21st century if the dogs do too, presumably as justification for using traditional corrections, but dogs, unlike people, aren't capable of conscious change. They are totally at the mercy of their handlers when it comes to their welfare & quality of life. This is true of all domestic animals. Like it or not, what might be acceptable to your peers within the tight world of fieldsports is no longer necessarily acceptable to the wider community. The law is quite specific with what you can & can't do to an animal in your care & some of the traditional punishments used by dog trainers are highly questionable. And its not just the cuddly bunny brigade that find traditional methods of punishment objectionable. Its not so many years ago that some of out top Labrador field triallers got kicked off a moor they picked-up on because the owner was sickened by the beatings & shakings they routinely dished out to their dogs.

Naj

[Judy]

I do think dogs have moved on as well, they seem to be much more biddable and therefore more easily trained these days, certainly the better bred ones are. Either that or I have got better at training!

I don't steady a dog up too much at that age, I like to see the enthusiasm and fun developed before exerting any kind of pressure. I know others prefer to never let the pup do anything they don't want it to do all its life, maybe that's a subject for another discussion.

[Nonehpets]

Heel work and steadiness are more about how you live with the dog than how you train it.

Discuss.

Certainly agree as far as steadiness goes Judy, I am not consciously training steadiness with Dicey yet - I want him to go off and try things even if he makes mistakes.

Last week however he got a mild grumbling because he ran in ... and left a black furry streak through my shot of a bank of violets. It would have been a stronger grumbling if he'd scared off some creature I was photographing but flowers stay still! Today he spotted I was crouched down and was on his way at 5 million miles an hour when he must have spotted the camera and slammed the brakes on, waited for the camera to be lowered and lens cap on, then he came in for fuss.

I don't consider I have trained him in this any more than I trained him not to chase birds - more that he is becoming accustomed to my habit of suddenly stopping to take pictures

Cathy

[Andrew]

Most on here know what's acceptable and what isn't. likewise it's also known how much rope to give the dog.
on one hand steadiness can be defined as good manners, on the other it could be defined as as well behaved and controlled dog. in reality the only difference is the age to the perceived acceptable standard.

This is a gundog training forum so I'm channelling my thoughts along what I would accept and what I wouldn't.Judy quite rightly states that she is a little more lax regarding steadiness.

"I don't steady a dog up too much at that age, I like to see the enthusiasm and fun developed before exerting any kind of pressure. I know others prefer to never let the pup do anything they don't want it to do all its life"

The main point is Judy and many others have the ability and experience to know when to rein the dog in and when to praise it. In my opinion the new handler does not have that ability hence the dog runs riot and a sharp NO in most cases will not suffice.

We can happily generalise but lets keep 2 feet firmly on the ground and be realistic specific with what we advise and who that advice is given too, one size does not fit all.

me wifes left me again

[Judy]

Sensible wuman!

[Andrew]

I thinks she's got a bloke in Canada

Come on Mods keep this post on track

[Nonehpets]

What did you say to her Andrew ... "steadiness training for you tomorrow my love"? ... or was it the rolled up towel that made her run?

on one hand steadiness can be defined as good manners, on the other it could be defined as as well behaved and controlled dog. in reality the only difference is the age to the perceived acceptable standard.

This is getting a bit like the Dundonian where "Eh" means at least four different things depending on where in the sentence it appears and whether it is followed by a ? (which turns "Yes" into "Why?")

Isn't this part of the problem though? Dicey isn't steady yet but he is:

• Pretty well mannered most of the time for an older Pup
• well controlled - I can stop him to whistle and I can recall him

But he isn't what steadiness implies to me - the dog showing self-control in different situations - knowing it's job I suppose.

I know the word thing isn't popular around here but truly how do people learn if we have multiple definitions?

Cathy