FTCH pedigrees

vicky payne · Post by **vicky payne** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:40 am

I'm thinking there are some people on this forum with enormous knowledge of pedigrees and I'm hoping to cut corners in my research by picking their brains!
Someone was asking on a Facebook forum about health tested FTCH dogs and between us we came up with only 2 or 3 which have been KC/BVA eye tested and DNA tested. I don't want this to degenerate into an is health testing pointless debate but it was a criteria for this person, as was FTCH status.
All the dogs which were suggested (a few Open FTW's came up too) had either one of the Steadroc dogs in the first couple of generations or Clarburgh Art. Now these were obviously cracking dogs and have produced cracking progeny but it worries me that due to my own bitch's pedigree I would not wish to breed that closely... It got me thinking and worrying....if I wanted to use a FTCH or Open FTW sire, even without any health tests, would I find it hard to find something without these dogs? Or shoudln't I worry? I have been told that doubling up on C. Art (or C. Amy) doesn't produce the best dogs (any truth in that?) Are there any 'dogs to watch' on the trialling scene from significantly different lines and if not....are we breeding into a corner?

t jack · Post by **t jack** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:34 am

Why does it need to be a FTCH?

vicky payne · Post by **vicky payne** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:52 am

For me it doesn't!
The person who made the original post wants to win open field trials and the percieved wisdom is that putting your best bitch to a FTCH dog increases the likelihood of that. I guess there are a few people out there who can spot the potential in a working gundog or a young dog but the rest of us are told FTCH status is the mark of the best dogs.... if not why would people put so much time and effort into getting it?

Alice · Post by **Alice** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:58 am

I can think of a few big-name FTCHs without any of those dogs:

Saturn's Spirit (and his sons- FTW Edgegrove Karva, who I think is health tested and FTW Larford Cannon )
Cleeburf Bramble
Maesyronen Market Trader
Deepfleet Jay (not sure if he's still at stud?)
Clangregor Albammach of Biteabout

...I don't think it'll be too difficult to find a FTCH without those lines.

Alice · Post by **Alice** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:59 am

actually, as I'm having a bit of a slow day at work I might keep looking for FTCH and/or winners with no lines to Art/Amy or Steadroc. Keeps me out of mischief!

Alice · Post by **Alice** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:02 pm

Will Cluelee's got a nice FTW dog without either, Jacky's Lad, sired by Jeremy Organ's Laddie, dam has some more unusual lines to her, going back to Badgercourt Warlord.

toxicshot · Post by **toxicshot** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:17 pm

CLEARMEADOW FLASH OF COUNTRYWAYS
FTW Raven Inquest
Countryways Barnum
FTCH Belvden Vatanen
FTCH Belvden Collingwood:
Rydanlue
http://www.rydanlue.co.uk/Poppy.html

vicky payne · Post by **vicky payne** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:37 pm

Thanks for those, good to know there is some choice out there. A few I wouldn't use for one reason or another but some to look out for too. Not that I'm looking for an outside stud just yet! Ru's first litter will almost certainly be with my black and white dog....it's just good to know there will be options out there a generation or two beyond. I particularly like the look of Will Clulees' boys and the Edgegrove dogs.....now, if they could just do a health test or two

scot-ish · Post by **scot-ish** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:48 pm

vicky payne wrote:For me it doesn't!

vicky payne wrote:Thanks for those, good to know there is some choice out there. A few I wouldn't use for one reason or another but some to look out for too. Not that I'm looking for an outside stud just yet! Ru's first litter will almost certainly be with my black and white dog....it's just good to know there will be options out there a generation or two beyond. I particularly like the look of Will Clulees' boys and the Edgegrove dogs.....now, if they could just do a health test or two

so maybe you are also looking for a champion dog to use, even though you said that factor doesn't matter not ?

#controversy

springer-spaniel · Post by **springer-spaniel** » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:42 pm

Ftch dawsonlee chance is line bred to art/Amy lines on both sides to my knowledge and it don't seem to have been a bad result does it? I think most hear say just comes from potential competition in the trade, I wouldn have a problem doubling up on art or Amy or sker providing both the stud dog and dam were sound and fault free and took my eye! If it didnt work then fair play at least I would have tried! Try the other way by outcrossing and if that don't work either then the bull shi* about doubling up on mentioned dogs is A load of pap lol

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FTCH pedigrees

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