AMS in English Springer Spaniels
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There is no substitute to visiting your Vet - he has the knowledge and experience and can see/feel/smell your dog and advise accordingly. Please apply your own judgement and common sense to any advice given. What works for one dog might not work for another. If you are in any doubt please visit your Vet! General Forum Rules
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vicky payne
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AMS in English Springer Spaniels
This week the English Springer Spaniel Breed health council has revealed that a litter has been born containing puppies affected by AMS. The parents have subsequently been tested and confirmed to be carriers.
It is not important to know what type (show, pet, working)or lines are involved as with such a small effective population size across all types, any dog could be a carrier. It is not OK to assume if your dog isn't related it couldn't be a carrier. Equally, we don't want to see breeders who put two apparently healthy dogs together to be demonised, especially not as they have come forwards and shared their devastating news with the breed health coordinators.
We now need to get a good cross section of the ESS population tested to see how big a problem this is (or isn't) as well as to avoid producing any more affected puppies. Unfortunately there is no funding for this at the moment so owners will need to fund the test themselves. The test is run by Antagene and costs around £55 (65 Euros). The sample must be taken/verified by a vet and owners are responsible for reporting results to the Kennel Club.
The English Springer Spaniel Society recommendation is now that at least one parent should be tested 'clear' before breeding a litter.
It should not be a surprise that AMS is found in UK English Springers as the first papers on AMS cited English Springer Spaniels in Australia. This is no evidence of cocker/springer cross breeding as the mutation is found in several gundog breeds and may have originated before breeds split. It is not a 'new' disease, but social media has made sharing information about cases easier, and with a DNA test it is easier for vets to confirm a diagnosis. As in cockers, this disease has always been around, but was often thought to be a severe allergic or behavioural problem.
If you want to help the breed by testing, please do. If you don't agree with health testing please don't comment. If you're going to ask what the lines are, don't bother, I haven't asked. If you think trial wins or breeding dogs for 50 years mean yours couldn't be carriers, please don't comment.
It is not important to know what type (show, pet, working)or lines are involved as with such a small effective population size across all types, any dog could be a carrier. It is not OK to assume if your dog isn't related it couldn't be a carrier. Equally, we don't want to see breeders who put two apparently healthy dogs together to be demonised, especially not as they have come forwards and shared their devastating news with the breed health coordinators.
We now need to get a good cross section of the ESS population tested to see how big a problem this is (or isn't) as well as to avoid producing any more affected puppies. Unfortunately there is no funding for this at the moment so owners will need to fund the test themselves. The test is run by Antagene and costs around £55 (65 Euros). The sample must be taken/verified by a vet and owners are responsible for reporting results to the Kennel Club.
The English Springer Spaniel Society recommendation is now that at least one parent should be tested 'clear' before breeding a litter.
It should not be a surprise that AMS is found in UK English Springers as the first papers on AMS cited English Springer Spaniels in Australia. This is no evidence of cocker/springer cross breeding as the mutation is found in several gundog breeds and may have originated before breeds split. It is not a 'new' disease, but social media has made sharing information about cases easier, and with a DNA test it is easier for vets to confirm a diagnosis. As in cockers, this disease has always been around, but was often thought to be a severe allergic or behavioural problem.
If you want to help the breed by testing, please do. If you don't agree with health testing please don't comment. If you're going to ask what the lines are, don't bother, I haven't asked. If you think trial wins or breeding dogs for 50 years mean yours couldn't be carriers, please don't comment.
Re: AMS in English Springer Spaniels
Why now and not when it was first diagnosed, Is that because the first cases weren't in the UK? I understand its been around a long time in ESS.
Edited to add I guess that was before the gene test became available?
Edited to add I guess that was before the gene test became available?
In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
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romanriver
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Re: AMS in English Springer Spaniels
In Cockers, knowledge of the lines affected prompted more people to test, releasing more information is the only way to improve awareness and testing
- James
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Re: AMS in English Springer Spaniels
It is always important to know every detail available as it drives people to test accordingly rather than just say well its one in 300000 so who cares. There's no need for wide spread panick testing if all information is given. But then how would these companies ever make any money........
If it was easy it wouldn't be so much fun.
Re: AMS in English Springer Spaniels
As I understand it, the KC will record test results and put them on the Registration document in the usual way but at the moment will not be publishing a list of results as they do with, say, PRA Cord 1. I shall be testing and I'll post the results on my website as I always do - and put them on this thread too. I agree with Vicky that the people who have come forward to ESSC to notify the problem should not be stigmatised, but it would be helpful to know the status of individual dogs if owners are willing to share information.
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vicky payne
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Re: AMS in English Springer Spaniels
I'm sure once a good number of dogs are tested more information will come to light. At the moment there are a handful of clears and these unfortunate carrier parents/ affected pups. Just please don't assume it won't be in your lines, and when finances allow test...for the good of the breed.
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romanriver
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Re: AMS in English Springer Spaniels
With Cocker, trying to get information was like getting blood out of a stone, with some really nasty people urging everyone to test immediately, I wont be testing anything until more facts come to light.
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vicky payne
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Re: AMS in English Springer Spaniels
Unfortunately more facts won't come to light until more people test...chicken and egg. The breed health co-ordinators are not saying this is a huge problem, the honest truth is that we don't know how big a problem it is. It needs a number of breeders to put their hands in their pockets and test, across a range of show, working, and pet lines so that the breed health co-ordinators can give better advice in the future. We might find it is restricted to show lines, or to working lines. We might find that is it actually really rare and we need only test the close relations of affected/carrier dogs. We might find it is fairly common and it would become a no-brainer test to do.romanriver wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:22 am With Cocker, trying to get information was like getting blood out of a stone, with some really nasty people urging everyone to test immediately, I wont be testing anything until more facts come to light.
I've ordered my test kits, I will pay my money, I will add to the data.
Judy: why didn't they recommend it previously? There had been no reported cases in the UK, and nothing on the annual breed health survey which suggested AMS. I think they have shown a very sensible response i.e. don't test just because there is a test available. Now they are asking people to test so that we can discover if this is a big problem in UK springers or a small (albeit nasty) one.
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vicky payne
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Re: AMS in English Springer Spaniels
I will ask the the BHCs/KC are planning to publish a list of clear/carrier/affected dogs as they do for other diseases. Unfortunately Antigene don't report directly to the KC so we will be relying on owners sending in their results.
Re: AMS in English Springer Spaniels
Thanks, Vicky.
In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.