Feeding Dogs

Any health / feeding questions - remember this is no substitute for the Vet!
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There is no substitute to visiting your Vet - he has the knowledge and experience and can see/feel/smell your dog and advise accordingly. Please apply your own judgement and common sense to any advice given. What works for one dog might not work for another. If you are in any doubt please visit your Vet! General Forum Rules
Callthatagundog
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Feeding Dogs

Post by Callthatagundog »

Afternoon all,

Just a few thoughts based on past and current experience.

There are always questions being asked about what is the best food to feed your dogs on and, quite rightly, there is no correct answer. It will always come down to personal preference, available budget and how the dog 'does' on it.

I was brought up with dogs being fed on cooked meat, table scraps and Carter Carna (sp?) meal. The dogs did ok and died when you would have expected from old-age related conditions.

When I was a teenager and was given my first gundog, I was introduced to dry food. Tried a few types but stuck with Valumix supplemented with table scraps. Again the dog did fine and died at slightly above the average age. My second lab was a hooligan - basically fed on dried food but supplemented with crisps, beer, table scraps, curry, etc, etc, - whatever she could get her paws on. Back legs went when she was 13 (no testing, no papers, no history) and the decision was taken.

Subsequent dogs have been fed on increasingly more 'natural' (and more expensive :( )dried food until Kiwi's allergies (and Arwesa's post :clap: ) introduced us to raw feeding. I was so pleased with the results all the dogs were moved onto raw - either done ourselves with help from the butcher or by purchasing Natural Instinct. It was like a lightbulb coming on - dogs don't choose cereal naturally so why had I been feeding them it?

Back in January the old terrier had to be catheterised and needed emergency surgery to remove masses of bladder stones, some of which had to be back flushed into the bladder as they were blocking his urethra. The vet said they had never seen so many stones and the x-rays looked horrendous. The stones went off for testing and back came the answer that he needed a special (high cereal) vet diet to prevent stones forming. We have followed this diet until last weekend when we had to rush him to the vet again. He just wasn't right - shaking, moaning, reluctant to move, I thought this was it. He was tested, x-rayed and examined. The x-rays showed more small bladder stones had formed in the last 7 months, despite the special diet. :brickwall: However, this was not the problem - bloods revealed pancreatitis and he is now off his special diet and needs a low-fat diet. And this low fat diet? Chappie original! Yes, that's the one you get cheap in the supermarket with no identifiable meat, fish or cereal content.

I am in no way blaming any of the food for Kipper's problems. Everyone else is doing great - it's just obviously him and how he metabolises his food. Just makes me laugh really - you can end up recommending and feeding the best that money can buy but at the end of the day, if it doesn't suit, that's it...... :lol:

The moral is feed what suits regardless of the cost.

Sarah xx
'To err is human, to forgive canine' - with apologies to Alexander Pope
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arwesa
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Re: Feeding Dogs

Post by arwesa »

Our Labs panreatits was one of the reaosn we have ended up on the raw feeds. Its much easier to know what's going in and control the fat levels imo. We're fortunate the natural instinct is working for him. Out of interest, was the jr ok on raw or was that gving the pancreatits symptoms too?
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As a handler, its impossible to make your dog perform better than it is, but very easy to make it perform far worse.
Callthatagundog
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Re: Feeding Dogs

Post by Callthatagundog »

Mmm... Difficult to say..... This is a dog who has always had a problem with his digestive tract or what resulted from it!

Back in the day he used to love Skinners Rough and Ready but we ended up with severe anal gland problems not just with him, but with his son too. Strangely, given the outcome, he always loved sticking his nose in a bowl of Chappie but I can't for the life of me remember why I would be feeding him it - unless someone suggested it as an anal gland 'improver'. He ended up having his glands flushed and after that we had no problem other than the need for regular evacuation. We then fed Arden Grange and then Dene's with probably others inbetween that I have forgotten about as we were trying to sort out Kiwi's allergies at the same time.

The raw food seemed like a great option (and I still believe it is for the majority) as it would help address the anal glands too. The bladder stones were a bolt from the blue as we had been led to believe earlier that it was likely to be bladder cancer - it's a good job Kiwi and Tywi knew what they were doing that day as the handler was not entirely concentrating on the picking up!

Kip has always been a bit colicky and I do now wonder if that was down to fat content in the food. This last (diagnosed) episode followed us feeding him on minced up chicken carcasses - not particularly fatty I'd assume? We did feed him the vet diet 6 out of 7 days per week. With the raw they always get extra salmon oil - perhaps this was the problem?

The only other thing is that he can get a bit stressy which can affect his gut. He was in kennels over the cla, so who knows?

All I can say is he is nearly 14 and hopefully he will still manage a couple of half days in the beating line this season. The pancreatitis is more immediately painful than the bladder stones so we will feed for that and cross the bladder stone issue as and when we come to it again.

Sarah xx
'To err is human, to forgive canine' - with apologies to Alexander Pope
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Re: Feeding Dogs

Post by FizzyWolf »

Isn’t there too much calcium in a raw diet? Bearing in mind it’s mainly bones….
Too much calcium causes bladder/kidney stones.

As for skinners, you may as well feed cattle feed.
Callthatagundog
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Re: Feeding Dogs

Post by Callthatagundog »

FizzyWolf wrote:Isn’t there too much calcium in a raw diet? Bearing in mind it’s mainly bones….
Too much calcium causes bladder/kidney stones.

As for skinners, you may as well feed cattle feed.
I think there are a number of feeders of Skinners out there who would disagree. As I said feed for the condition and health of your dog - if it suits, then fine. If not, change.

As for a raw diet being "mainly bones", before I go into detail, please can you explain why you think this and also what feeding regime you think raw feeders follow?

To my mind raw feeding, properly followed, is one of the most detailed feeding regimes you can find and there is no proven link between calcium rich diets and bladder stones. Calcium is not the only and unique cause of bladder stones, they can be alkaline and alkoloid in substance, or in the case of one dog I had a mixture of both.

Sarah xx
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arwesa
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Re: Feeding Dogs

Post by arwesa »

FizzyWolf wrote:Isn’t there too much calcium in a raw diet? Bearing in mind it’s mainly bones….
Too much calcium causes bladder/kidney stones.

As for skinners, you may as well feed cattle feed.
raw diet is whatever you make it and probably best for controling intake in relation to health.


If it were me Id be feeding raw 3 times a day with added water (we do this with natural instinct if theyre waste is too light), but the same would benefit a dog with kidney stones. encouraging water consumption. Dont add fats to the diet as this is likely the trigger for pancreatitis.
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Re: Feeding Dogs

Post by Allyson »

The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail more than his tongue!
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FizzyWolf
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Re: Feeding Dogs

Post by FizzyWolf »

Callthatagundog wrote:As for a raw diet being "mainly bones", before I go into detail, please can you explain why you think this and also what feeding regime you think raw feeders follow?
Well, bones and raw food/offal/meat. I get the impression there is a lot of bones involved?
It seems like a lot of faffing about, when there is descent dog food available, in the sack.

How do you know if you’re meeting the nutritional needs of a dog? Or do you wait for the affects to take place, and then take the animal to the vet?


:think:
Callthatagundog
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Re: Feeding Dogs

Post by Callthatagundog »

FizzyWolf wrote:
Callthatagundog wrote:As for a raw diet being "mainly bones", before I go into detail, please can you explain why you think this and also what feeding regime you think raw feeders follow?
Well, bones and raw food/offal/meat. I get the impression there is a lot of bones involved?
It seems like a lot of faffing about, when there is descent dog food available, in the sack.

How do you know if you’re meeting the nutritional needs of a dog? Or do you wait for the affects to take place, and then take the animal to the vet?


:think:
As I said in my original posts, I have no axe to grind over what people feed their dogs - I feed what best suits my dogs individual requirements according to my understanding of that need. I happen to believe that for general feeding, raw food is best - my belief, my opinion and backed up by the condition of my dogs. My vets are also supportive of this. If however, as arose with Kipper, a medical condition indicates that a specific diet is appropriate then that is what we do.

I do take exception to your assumption that I feed my dogs a raw diet and wait for them to have problems. If you had taken the trouble to research my previous posts you would have seen the lengths I was prepared to go to to improve my labs condition. Natural Instinct is a completely nutritionally balanced raw dog food that we scoop out of the tub, apart from being wet and with fully traceable ingredients there is no difference to what you feed your dogs. If we create our own raw food, we add the appropriate veg and oil.

This post was never intended to be a dry versus raw argument - I was merely showing how one size does not fit all, whatever your feeding beliefs.

Sarah xx
'To err is human, to forgive canine' - with apologies to Alexander Pope
Pink Gundog
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Re: Feeding Dogs

Post by Pink Gundog »

As they say in humans "You are what you eat" and it is so very true :-D
My Attitude is based on how you treat me!!
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