Training for trials

[vicky payne]

I had an interesting conversation over the weekend but it got me thinking....
The person I was talking to has several dogs; they train with a local gundog trainer who works and trials his dogs. At a gundog event it was suggested that one of the dogs had something special and it was suggested that this person contact somebody else (a top trialler I assume, no names were mentioned!) for further training of this dog to bring out it's full potential for trials. Now, I can't wait to see this dog and handler in action but I am wondering what is so different about the training they are getting from trainer a compared to trainer b? Are there secrets the top triallers aren't telling us mere mortals???!!! Would us mere mortals benefit from training more with 'top triallers' or isn't there much point unless you have a 'top dog'?

[keanerthanroy]

A trainer trains all sorts of dogs (even within gundogs) and trisllers trsin s dog they want to trial with but may be no good at getting a 4 year old mongrel to bring a ball back.

Maybe the bloke trialling had access to game that the first trainer did n't?

[trekmoor]

A trialer may have more game available to train on but I think it is his/her attitude of mind that makes him a good trialer. He wants to win more than most other folk and so is more unlikely to accept 2nd best from a dog or from himself.

Wullie

[arwesa]

Its also about knowing HOW to win. i.e. what is required of handler and dog in practical terms .... a bit like they teach kids today how to pass exams...not just the subjects

[mustogirl]

perhaps Trainer B had more experience of certain characteristic traits or more experience of the lineage?

[sandwillow]

I assume that the advice was for the trials trainer to train this dog rather than for them to train the owner?

If so, I think the answer is pretty obvious -
(Q) why do a few names figure more often than others in the winners list?.
(A) because they are better trainers (I agree that after a while their success enables them to access better dogs so it has a cumulative effect but they are, without doubt, better trainers)

Ian Openshaw is the top spaniel gundog trainer in the country and, of course, he does a better job and is more likely to be successful than 99%+ of other trainers - and this would be the case whatever the spaniel he was working with. So, if winning is your goal stop wasting your time trying to do it yourself and send your dog to him!

Without doubt there are techniques and experiences that he has which we could all learn from but in my view he (and all the top trainers) also have a "dog sense" and are "gifted" with a natural ability which enables them to get the best out of a dog. This is no different to any sport - anyone can hit a ball or run a few yards, and with coaching, practice and experience we can get better, but only a minute number are ever going to be world class sportsmen. I would also argue that you can often spot these gifts at a young age because of their entirely natural ability. Ian won his first open trial aged 15.

So yes, of course this dog would be much more likely to win a trial if trained by an expert and, if the dog has real natural talent and lots of potential, it must be tempting to ask an expert to take on the dog and enable that talent to be fully exploited. If winning was the only goal then that would be the route to take but, like most sports or hobbies, I'm sure that the enjoyment for most of us has to do with self fulfillment and doing the best we are capable of with our dogs rather than getting someone else to do it. In reality most have a bit of both, doing it themselves as well as getting advice and help from the experts and this seems a good approach.

And as someone said on another thread some time ago - the pleasure of winning a test or trial is all the owners, the dogs motivation is entirely something else.

[trekmoor]

I completely agree with that last sentence or two. It may even have been me that said this. People enjoy trialing, I certainly did, but my dogs would have had more to do at the average shoot and would have enjoyed that far more.

Wullie

[Boundarymoor]

As above, Trainer A or B, cant remember the thread now, probably has access to more ground, may be better ground in the game sense, goes rabbiting more often or is simply a top trainer with a proven record of taking dogs in and training them and will bring out the best in every dog.

[vicky payne]

I assume that the advice was for the trials trainer to train this dog rather than for them to train the owner?

In this case the owner/handler is attending training with the dog as far as I am aware. I guess I'll find out all in good time what this handler has learnt, and who from! I'm rooting for the team to come out all guns blazing!