Alice wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:36 pm
the tail carriage really doesn't do it for me either. It's horses for courses I guess though. Looking at the proposed sire he may but a bit more fire in as he has some Hellfire dogs in his bitch line. Angela's dogs are usually goers.
On a different note, is it usual to hunt dogs in that harness getup over there?
Having said all that,if all is wanted is a good steady rough shooting dog then the bitch seems to fill the part. If you want a high octane trialing dog then you need to look at another Dam. The bitch looks a good shooting dog and there are thousands much worse.
Depends what you want,but the dam seems a good steady dog to shoot over.
Yes, all I'm looking for is a honest dog to shoot over. I rather not have a plodder but then I don't need a rapid fired dog that will burn out just before we hit scarce game. As others have noted, terrain here is tough and narlly, so I would think, pace and stamina wouldn't go amiss.
Crackerd, perhaps I would have looked at a Toller if I was not so influenced by all the virtues of these jack of trades spaniels that I see everywhere in the uk especially. Sure, I even thought of a cocker but felt it was the polar opposite of a lab...don't know if I would have the patience for such an energetic little package.
I don't pretend to be an expert on ESS pedigrees but I do recognize the Springville Kennel line. They come from Frank O'Grady in Millbrook Ontario. He is the top winning Canadian ESS field trial breeder and trainer. Frank is a bit of a polorizing figure. I notice in this forum top winning kennels are over there as well. However I have had personal experience with his dogs. I got a very nice very hard going bitch from him about 35 years ago and then two others later. I know some fellows with dogs from him more recently and all are happy with them.
I'm suspicious of people who don't like dogs, but I trust a dog when it doesn't like a person. - Bill Murray
CockerCanuck wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:20 pm
Newf, but I know where you live.
I hope that is not a threat.
Absolutely no threat implied Newf. In fact I have no idea where in a very big Province you live. Also I am a very non threatening type of fellow. I just meant that I have spent lots of time in your beautiful part of the world and know the type of dog considered ideal in the UK may not be the best there.
I'm suspicious of people who don't like dogs, but I trust a dog when it doesn't like a person. - Bill Murray
True enough, your comparison of my terrain compared to the uk, is by in large rough. However, what piqued my interest was video of the spaniels working windrows in the uk. I compared that to working a dog along roads or paths with alder growths in which hares (rabbits) and grouse feed and hide. Along with that, I still jump shoot waterfowl and from what I see from ess in our part of the world is a strong instinct to retrieve from water. Some even could put a lab to shame as to heart and determination. Then too, we do have plateaus that have similar rough terrain to that of the uk in which grouse abound. Admittedly, it's common to see setters and Brittanys in those areas and probably with good reason.
Yes back when they were the only dogs I had I did a lot of waterfowl hunting with Springers. They are indeed enthusiastic retrievers and all I had swam very well. I think they are even better than a Lab at finding a downed bird in heavy cover. They are also a nice size for jump shooting from a canoe which I use to do a lot of. The downside is their lack of a coat which really protects them in cold water and their desire to be constantly out there trying to make something happen. They are not the most patient dogs in a boat or blind through the slow periods. Of course they can be trained to be steady but they still fidget and look unhappy when they have to sit for long periods.
I'm suspicious of people who don't like dogs, but I trust a dog when it doesn't like a person. - Bill Murray
Alice wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:36 pm
the tail carriage really doesn't do it for me either. It's horses for courses I guess though. Looking at the proposed sire he may but a bit more fire in as he has some Hellfire dogs in his bitch line. Angela's dogs are usually goers.
On a different note, is it usual to hunt dogs in that harness getup over there?
Having said all that,if all is wanted is a good steady rough shooting dog then the bitch seems to fill the part. If you want a high octane trialing dog then you need to look at another Dam. The bitch looks a good shooting dog and there are thousands much worse.
Depends what you want,but the dam seems a good steady dog to shoot over.
I see your point, but I would still want something that didn't carry its head and its tail in the air like that.
westcountry wrote: ↑Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:43 pm
So would I Alice. But to a rough shooting man does it really matter?
Depends on how much he appreciates spaniels and dog work really, I'm with Alice on this, like I said, the dogs not my cup of tea and when I go shooting over a dog I like it to be fast and stylish, if I'm out for a long session, I'd need more than one to keep up the pace and keep me interested.
If the owner's happy well fair enough, good luck to him and I hope he enjoys his dog.
As others have noted, terrain here is tough and narlly, so I would think, pace and stamina wouldn't go amiss. 
