ips wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:54 pm
What type of punishment naj ?
Punishment such as not getting a retrieve, that sort of thing ?
Why would you punish a dog for not bro gi g something in?
I can't think of one instance where the wrong message would easily be sent.
You misunderstand SP. I was genuinely interested in what punishment naj refers to. As we all know that naj does not use physical punishment I assumed that given his love for the long line or trailing lead maybe a punishment for let's say unsteadiness to a thrown dummy would be that the dog does not get the retrieve. I could be totally wrong of course hence asking for elaboration
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.
I think Ips is talking about the withholding of rewards, like witholding a retrieve or titbit if a dog isn’t steady or whatever.
I agree, CC, I’ve softened my methods as I’ve got older to the extent that I don’t intentionally use corrections, routinely or otherwise. I figure that the dog has no voice in whatever sport we involve it in, it has no choice in that or how we choose to treat it but more often than not we make it personally responsible for our success, failure or spoiling our fun. And I’ve yet to see a dog that Says ... fair cop, Guv, I deserved that ... when it’s been corrected as some seem to imply. It’s remarkable that they throw themselves so whole heartedly into whatever we do even though we don’t treat them particularly nicely at times. Just my take on it and I appreciate not everyone feels that way.
I am 90% of the way there with you Naj. I agree it is "remarkable that they throw themselves wholeheartedly into whatever we do" and want from them. Where we differ is I believe one of the main things that stresses them and causes them upset is uncertainty. They really crave to know what we want and are unhappy when they don't understand. If I can get them to that understanding quicker with appropriately measured and timed corrections I think we are both happier in the end.
I also agree this stuff is pretty subjective and everyone sees and feels it somewhat differently.
I'm suspicious of people who don't like dogs, but I trust a dog when it doesn't like a person. - Bill Murray
stu_young wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:17 pm
just genral leadwork and heel work
As soon as reasonably possible. I like to give a new pup a few days to a week to just generally settle in to its new home and family and get over separation from its mother and littermates but training can start right after that. Of course you need remember it is just a baby so keep things gentle, positive and easy to understand. Walking on a lead would be one of these things. I think much easier to teach when they are young before they have conditioned themselves into thinking pulling is normal, or even fun.
I'm suspicious of people who don't like dogs, but I trust a dog when it doesn't like a person. - Bill Murray
CockerCanuck wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:42 pm
I am 90% of the way there with you Naj. I agree it is "remarkable that they throw themselves wholeheartedly into whatever we do" and want from them. Where we differ is I believe one of the main things that stresses them and causes them upset is uncertainty. They really crave to know what we want and are unhappy when they don't understand. If I can get them to that understanding quicker with appropriately measured and timed corrections I think we are both happier in the end.
I also agree this stuff is pretty subjective and everyone sees and feels it somewhat differently.
I don’t think we actually do differ that much on a lot of this, CC. There’s certainly no room for uncertainty in my training, either. Things are still black and white, positive and negative, just in a different way. I think the biggest thing holding me back when crossing over (That sounds wierd, like ‘I’m coming out’ ) was changing my mindset from that of stopping /checking the dog from doing all the unwanted behaviours that crop up in training to concentrating on developing and rewarding the behaviours that I’m looking for. But I readily admit that I didn’t change methodology just to make life easier.
) was changing my mindset from that of stopping /checking the dog from doing all the unwanted behaviours that crop up in training to concentrating on developing and rewarding the behaviours that I’m looking for. But I readily admit that I didn’t change methodology just to make life easier.